Wells Fargo Pedigree $20 St. Gaudens gold

[JIM F.]

This is a new thread. Members have been commenting that the Wells Fargo pedigree is somewhat tainted due to liberal grading by PCGS on this particular pedigree. I am interested (since I have a MS-65 that I bought upon original issuance) on this topic.

 

Please post comments.

 

Thank You.

 

 

[coinman_23885]

From the old thread:

A slight tangential question -- I have a 1907 NM PCGS MS-65 Wells Fargo St. Gaudens (bought when they were 1st available). Is the marketplace putting any premium on these?

 

 

I have actually heard of people having the Pedigree information removed to avoid any stigma. As alluded to previously, the hoard has a reputation for having been graded rather liberally.

 

Rather than have the pedigree removed, if indeed a coin is "overgraded" isn't PCGS obligated to refund the price difference between grades?

 

Yes, but at the same time you are dependent on them to invoke the guarantee and remember they decide what is fair market value, which may or may not be what you paid for the item (or full retail for that matter). Often, it is much easier to sell the coin to someone who is only looking for plastic (i.e. some of those who play the registry game, etc.). Why go through the hassle when you can often flip the coin to a market maker (sight unseen) for the same or more money? You often receive your money faster too.

[JIM F.]

It is interesting that this is the first time I have heard about the Wells Fargo pedigree being "overgraded". Unlike the Redfield hoard which is notorious for being overgraded (and even damaged) what sources are there that discuss the Wells Fargo pedigree, or is it word of mouth? Thanks for the info on the topic.

 

 

[coinman_23885]

I am basing my observation on pieces that I have seen at shows and online; however, I am hardly the only one to make this observation. I know of a lot of dealers and collectors that have made similar observations as well (hence the reputation part of my statement). I'm sure that there are probably threads on this forum or across the street addressing the same topic.

 

EDITED TO ADD: I am not categorically suggesting that all Wells Fargo pedigreed coins are overgraded, but there certainly appear to be enough of them to be cautious when purchasing one.

[JIM F.]

Thanks. I bought mine from the original release, so no option to view prior to purchase, but on the other hand this was many years ago and the release price was quite a bit below today's current melt.

 

Appreciate your comments.

 

 

[noow]

Wells Fargo gold

[Kurtdog]

Jimbucks, think about it. As a general proposition, all pedigreed coins are inclined to be "over-graded." Why? You can thank the ANA for that, when they put pedigree on par with technical grading criteria. The same goes for eye-appealing color. Now, if that's the bad news, the good news is, those "over-graded" pedigreed coins are likely to hold their market grades. Why? Simple. The market pays for status, and will always continue to do that. And, that's all this pedigree criteria is, status.

 

Oh, but there are guarantees of "originality" in a coin with strong pedigree! Guarantees, my reverse. If you need an assist from pedigree before you can tell that, you need to find another hobby, IMHO...

[messydesk]

My unscientific survey of WF Saints leads me to believe that they tended to be generously graded. Whether or not it was to a greater extent than other Saints graded at that time, I don't know, as it's more difficult to identify these coins.

[dimefreak]

The NGC holder is one of the most counterfeited slabs. I have been to the fake slab sites and it seems just about every site had a MS66 Wells Fargo

[physics-fan3.14]

I have no experience with WF gold.... however, I know other large hoards are often overgraded or given generous treatment. For example, the Battle Creek - not nearly every single coin in that lot deserved stars. Yes, there were some spectacular coins, and most of them were attractive, but not nearly every one of them was starworthy. Germane to the Franklin realm, the Omaha Bank Hoard is notorious for being extremely generously graded (i.e., overgraded).

[MarkFeld]

The NGC holder is one of the most counterfeited slabs. I have been to the fake slab sites and it seems just about every site had a MS66 Wells Fargo

 

I have seen far more counterfeit PCGS holders than NGC holders on EBay.

 

While I think many of the Wells Fargo Saints are optimistically graded, I also think many of them are spot on and of exceptional quality. And to me, a significant number of non Wells Fargo Saints look to be just as loosely graded as the Wells Fargo ones.

[jom]

While I think many of the Wells Fargo Saints are optimistically graded, I also think many of them are spot on and of exceptional quality. And to me, a significant number of non Wells Fargo Saints look to be just as loosely graded as the Wells Fargo ones.

 

What!? You mean to tell me that we collectors are going to have to learn how to pick and choose quality coins ourselves? This is an outrage! What IS our hobby coming to?

 

jom

[dimefreak]

The NGC holder is one of the most counterfeited slabs. I have been to the fake slab sites and it seems just about every site had a MS66 Wells Fargo

 

I have seen far more counterfeit PCGS holders than NGC holders on EBay.

 

While I think many of the Wells Fargo Saints are optimistically graded, I also think many of them are spot on and of exceptional quality. And to me, a significant number of non Wells Fargo Saints look to be just as loosely graded as the Wells Fargo ones.

 

Mark I was referring to the actual people selling them in china. I dont doubt what you said in the least. I just remember being surprised that out of all coins they chose a wells fargo with the older writing.

[World Colonial]

I would not pay any premium for any of the coins I collect unless they were otherwise not available and it was my only choice. But I think that most pedigrees do not deserve to bring any premium at all. The most famous ones such as Eliasberg or Norweb, yes. But others such as Redfield or this one I do not see anything distinguishing about them at all.

[Kurtdog]

While I think many of the Wells Fargo Saints are optimistically graded, I also think many of them are spot on and of exceptional quality. And to me, a significant number of non Wells Fargo Saints look to be just as loosely graded as the Wells Fargo ones.

The point, though, is, pedigree, like it or not, is a market grading criteria. It's as much a market grading criteria, like it or not, as is "eye-appealing" color. Thus, if you're looking to collect only technically-accurate coins (which, I believe, many of us still are), you want to be extra wary whenever you see pedigree next to the assigned market grade on that slab. It's really as uncomplicated as that. Pedigree, as well as, again, eye-appealing color, allows for that market grading license.