Bad Ebayer.BEWARE!

[MarkFeld]

Just bid what you think the coin is worth to you.

This concept is just beyond the grasp of the shill whiners Perry!

I and many others who complain about it, understand it perfectly well. And I/we prefer not to do business with people who use shills, contrary to the rules of whatever venue they participate in.

 

 

You're insulting the wrong people and doing so unfairly.

[Hard Times]

Just bid what you think the coin is worth to you.

This concept is just beyond the grasp of the shill whiners Perry!

 

I will never conspire with folks who cheat the system and that is what shill bidding is, thaz what ebay even has in their policy, so calling me a whiner is pathetic.....

[Hard Times]

PS my comment above is directed at 19Lyds in case there is confusion on that point. Mark and Jackson say it nicer than I, but if your comment 19Lyds was to instigate a rude comment back, you did well mate.

[jom]

I will never conspire with folks who cheat the system and that is what shill bidding is, thaz what ebay even has in their policy, so calling me a whiner is pathetic.

 

Well, I didn't call you a whiner but I still hold to my post above. I see no reason not to participate as long as one only bids to the value you BELIEVE it's worth. I do not see that as conspiring with anyone by the way.

 

I mean, there is certainly shilling going on at Stacks and Heritage. Do you not participate there?

 

Of course, there is NOTHING wrong with avoiding the auction as that is your choice. I just see it differently. JMO.

 

jom

 

EDIT: edited since HT edited his post. It was funny though.

[Hard Times]

 

Well, I didn't call you a whiner but I still hold to my post above. I see no reason not to participate as long as one only bids to the value you BELIEVE it's worth. I do not see that as conspiring with anyone by the way.

 

I mean, there is certainly shilling going on at Stacks and Heritage. Do you not participate there?

 

Of course, there is NOTHING wrong with avoiding the auction as that is your choice. I just see it differently. JMO.

 

jom

 

Jom, the quote I used is from 19Lyds who became offensive IMO, not directed at you who have a differing opinion but have been civil.

 

If you choose to conspire with those who cheat the system be my guest and in this country you are free to do so, I choose otherwise, the shills used in ebay auctions are there to drive the price up and to avoid paying ebay reserve fees. That means honest folks who don't use shill are paying for those who do, and frankly that drives up my costs to sell on ebay as well as others who play by the rules.

 

Do you have proof of shill bidding going on with Stacks and Heritage? I have seen representatives of these companies emphatically deny any shill bidding goes on in their auctions.

[jom]

 

Jom, the quote I used is from 19Lyds who became offensive IMO, not directed at you who have a differing opinion but have been civil.

 

Yes, I know that.

 

If you choose to conspire with those who cheat the system be my guest and in this country you are free to do so, I choose otherwise, the shills used in ebay auctions are there to drive the price up and to avoid paying ebay reserve fees. That means honest folks who don't use shill are paying for those who do, and frankly that drives up my costs to sell on ebay as well as others who play by the rules.

 

I don't see it has conspiring with anyone. Not if I bid to what I believe it's value is. I'd do this of course NOT to be shilling for said seller. I'd do this to BUY THE COIN. Perhaps you misunderstood me.

 

Do you have proof of shill bidding going on with Stacks and Heritage? I have seen representatives of these companies emphatically deny any shill bidding goes on in their auctions.

 

Nothing directly but it can be easily done so I've got to believe it happens. JMO.

 

jom

[Chris1976]

Shills or no shills, the point is you can place an amount that you feel should be paid for the item. If it goes past that amount oh well, either someone else thought it was worth more or the seller bumped the bid to what they wanted. Either way, you offered what you felt it was worth to you. There is no way to tell if someone is bumping the bid or if it was someone completely unrelated to the seller making multiple bids for an item that they wanted as much if not more than you. The only real time this should concern anyone is during those times that you hope to "snipe" a quick last minute bid to get something for pennies on the dollar.

 

These are just my thoughts and are in no way pointed towards anyone.

 

-Chris#2

[Hard Times]

While your points are valid Chris and jom, the point is, dealers using shills are not playing by the ebay policies. They do this to avoid fees and essentially add a reserve at no cost. They also try to catch unsuspecting bidders who think they are bidding against another bidder who wants the coin, thereby providing the perception perhaps that the coin has a stronger value than reality. So when I know there are shills, time to pass on those dealers I won't get caught. Bottom line is that dealers using shills are clearly trying to take advantage of the system and those who don't have the knowledge or fortitude to known when to drop out, thereby they maximize profits - at least they think are or they would not play that game.

 

One has to decide whether one wants to do buisness with someone who does not have the ethics to play by the rules defined by the system, in this case, ebay. I have chosen not to. Yes I am repeating myself but this is the point I have been trying to make here. If others think it is okay to do buisness with dealers who cheat, this is their right. Since I rarely (don't think I ever have) see any coin on ebay that I cannot pass up, no worries, no effect on my goals in numismatics.

 

Best, HT

[jom]

While your points are valid Chris and jom, the point is, dealers using shills are not playing by the ebay policies. They do this to avoid fees and essentially add a reserve at no cost. They also try to catch unsuspecting bidders who think they are bidding against another bidder who wants the coin, thereby providing the perception perhaps that the coin has a stronger value than reality. So when I know there are shills, time to pass on those dealers I won't get caught. Bottom line is that dealers using shills are clearly trying to take advantage of the system and those who don't have the knowledge or fortitude to known when to drop out, thereby they maximize profits - at least they think are or they would not play that game.

 

One has to decide whether one wants to do buisness with someone who does not have the ethics to play by the rules defined by the system, in this case, ebay. I have chosen not to. Yes I am repeating myself but this is the point I have been trying to make here. If others think it is okay to do buisness with dealers who cheat, this is their right. Since I rarely (don't think I ever have) see any coin on ebay that I cannot pass up, no worries, no effect on my goals in numismatics.

 

Best, HT

 

I actually agree with you 100%. I also believe much of what you refer to is not only caused by eBay with their absurd charges they also let this practice go on...even after bilking as much money has they can from their customers.

 

BTW, my comments in the above posts are really only a "general" observations on bidding. I don't believe I've bid in an auction where I actually knew shilling was going on and I'll admit I'd probably not bid if I did. My comments are really only my way of bidding so as to avoid getting ripped in an auction: I only bid to what it think the coins is worth and no more...I try (not always successfully) to avoid the "fever" if you know what I mean.

 

jom

[Hard Times]

jom you are absolutely right, as we all know, the more we know, the more careful we are capable of assessing the value of a coin, the better off we are, shill or no shill. And yes, ebay allows this to go on which is troubling. I think they are in fear of losing high volume dealers if they don't just look the other way. ebay's ultimate goal is their bottom line and maximizing profits for their share holders.

[jom]

ebay's ultimate goal is their bottom line and maximizing profits for their share holders.

 

Maybe we should be shareholders.

 

jom