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Banned thread from ATS: "IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY"

Started by James_OldeTowne,

147 posts in this topic

coinman_23885

coinman_23885

Posted
Posted
Let's be clear since some of the posts have been misinterpreted.

 

2) PCGS killed the copper color guarantee in late 2009 for coins graded or sold after 12/31/09.

 

I'm not sure that this one was misinterpreted. There is no more copper guarantee at PCGS for color as your post indicates.

I was referring to a statement that said PCGS reneged on their copper guarantee. They didn't. What they guaranteed is still in effect. They changed their ongoing guarantee as of 1/1/10. I'm not happy about it. But I take comfort knowing what they promised for coins graded and owned prior to that date is still in effect.

Lance.

 

That's true. It's just a pain to dig through all of the old receipts to enforce the guarantee under the new policy.

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WoodenJefferson

WoodenJefferson

Posted
Posted

I am sure this post might get deleted. However I will try on this board

 

I sent to PCGS coins for bulk submission 108 came back in a ms66 and higher grade...

 

I glassed them all and found 75 have major hairlines.

 

I contacted pcgs around December 17,2010..about this since I had 288 in slabs waiting for shipment and another 100 not finalized to a ms66 minimum grade

 

I asked them to look at my slabs before shipment because I thought the cause might be there "dipping" process just a heads up with no treat ...

 

Because of my questioning there grading ability, I am now not allowed to submit to PCGS As this quote states in there letter.. "Mr XXXX you are no longer a customer of PCGS" (like to copy and past it here but I am sure it would be deleted)

 

I was given the chose have them send the holdered coins to me or they would crack them and send back the raw coins. I chose them to send back the coins in the holder..

 

The 288 I warned them, there might be a problem of massive hairlines, and to check them before shipment. I glassed last night and 131 had massive hairlines in holders.

 

If this post lasts till Tuesday I will post the booth and documentation of this true story and where they can be examined at the FUN show...

 

Serial numbers can tell a lot about a coins history and so can submission forms all will available at the FUN show.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm in a bit of a funky cloud here, are you saying that PCGS ruined 75+131 coins out of your bulk submissions?

 

~I'm tapping my head here...what makes you think they dip coins from a bulk submission?~

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ldhair

ldhair

Posted
Posted

I am sure this post might get deleted. However I will try on this board

 

I sent to PCGS coins for bulk submission 108 came back in a ms66 and higher grade...

 

I glassed them all and found 75 have major hairlines.

 

I contacted pcgs around December 17,2010..about this since I had 288 in slabs waiting for shipment and another 100 not finalized to a ms66 minimum grade

 

I asked them to look at my slabs before shipment because I thought the cause might be there "dipping" process just a heads up with no treat ...

 

Because of my questioning there grading ability, I am now not allowed to submit to PCGS As this quote states in there letter.. "Mr XXXX you are no longer a customer of PCGS" (like to copy and past it here but I am sure it would be deleted)

 

I was given the chose have them send the holdered coins to me or they would crack them and send back the raw coins. I chose them to send back the coins in the holder..

 

The 288 I warned them, there might be a problem of massive hairlines, and to check them before shipment. I glassed last night and 131 had massive hairlines in holders.

 

If this post lasts till Tuesday I will post the booth and documentation of this true story and where they can be examined at the FUN show...

 

Serial numbers can tell a lot about a coins history and so can submission forms all will available at the FUN show.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a bit tough trying to follow what you posted. Can't see them missing the grade on that many coins. There must be more to this story. Please post where we can see these at the Fun show.

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PerryHall

PerryHall

Posted
Posted

I am sure this post might get deleted. However I will try on this board

 

I sent to PCGS coins for bulk submission 108 came back in a ms66 and higher grade...

 

I glassed them all and found 75 have major hairlines.

 

I contacted pcgs around December 17,2010..about this since I had 288 in slabs waiting for shipment and another 100 not finalized to a ms66 minimum grade

 

I asked them to look at my slabs before shipment because I thought the cause might be there "dipping" process just a heads up with no treat ...

 

Because of my questioning there grading ability, I am now not allowed to submit to PCGS As this quote states in there letter.. "Mr XXXX you are no longer a customer of PCGS" (like to copy and past it here but I am sure it would be deleted)

 

I was given the chose have them send the holdered coins to me or they would crack them and send back the raw coins. I chose them to send back the coins in the holder..

 

The 288 I warned them, there might be a problem of massive hairlines, and to check them before shipment. I glassed last night and 131 had massive hairlines in holders.

 

If this post lasts till Tuesday I will post the booth and documentation of this true story and where they can be examined at the FUN show...

 

Serial numbers can tell a lot about a coins history and so can submission forms all will available at the FUN show.

 

 

 

Are you sure all those major hairlines aren't die polish lines? Can you show us some pics of these coins?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Keigwin

Keigwin

Posted
Posted

Not sure I understand the story but it is clear you crossed the line with PCGS. What could you possible have said or done that would cause them to axe you?

 

Companies should fire customers sometimes, for extreme circumstances. There's more too this story, no doubt.

 

As Perry said, hairlines are perfectly acceptable when they come from the coining operation (die polish, e.g.). And when they are PMD they will not always BB the coin but may instead downgrade it, depending on extent.

Lance.

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JStull

JStull

Posted
Posted

Is it just me, or am I not the only one thinking grade it is all over the place with his posts on this story?

 

Something doesn't sound right in it, and also doesn't make sense.

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grade it-migration

grade it-migration

Posted
Posted
Is it just me, or am I not the only one thinking grade it is all over the place with his posts on this story?

 

Something doesn't sound right in it, and also doesn't make sense.

 

 

 

Come to the FUN SHOW and see for yourself.

 

All over the place on these graded coins is exactly the problem.

 

Can not be more direct than that or honest.

 

You realize that the final say is from PCGS. ( perhaps massive hairlines are acceptable for a ms66 grade ?..)

 

My comments can only be factual. (chain of letter to and from PCGS on this issue) (original submission forms) ( PCGS grade form with serial numbers of these coins) (The coins in PCGS holders) All available at the FUN show.

 

Any other information I may have forgotten please post here so I may bring it to the show...

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JStull

JStull

Posted
Posted
Is it just me, or am I not the only one thinking grade it is all over the place with his posts on this story?

 

Something doesn't sound right in it, and also doesn't make sense.

 

 

 

Come to the FUN SHOW and see for yourself.

 

All over the place on these graded coins is exactly the problem.

 

Can not be more direct than that or honest.

 

You realize that the final say is from PCGS. ( perhaps massive hairlines are acceptable for a ms66 grade ?..)

 

My comments can only be factual. (chain of letter to and from PCGS on this issue) (original submission forms) ( PCGS grade form with serial numbers of these coins) (The coins in PCGS holders) All available at the FUN show.

 

Any other information I may have forgotten please post here so I may bring it to the show...

 

Why not just post everything here, for those of us not going to FUN?

 

Sounds to me like you're planning a disruption at the FUN show.

 

Just your entire story sounds fishy and makes no sense.

 

Judge Judy always says, "If it doesn't make sense, it isn't true."

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Come to the FUN SHOW and see for yourself.

 

We will be at booth 126

I cannot go to the FUN show. But, I would be willing to pay for shipping both ways if you would be willing to send me five coins of your choice that exhibit this problem. I'll image the coins, then give a written, unbiased opinion about what I find out. I'll have them turned around in three days or less. Would you be interested in doing that?

 

James M Garcia

PO Box 7l4

Fenton, MO 63O26

3I4-574-l785

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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Posted
I'm still somewhat confused about what has happened here. First, I never knew that PCGS offers bulk submission customers an option to have their coins dipped. Thats a new one on me.

I wrote a letter to Coin World, and they refused to publish it, when the lawsuit against coin doctors hit the fan. In the letter, I referenced an ad put out by PCGS offering to bulk dip your silver dollars to make them "more valuable", if you read between the lines.

 

I think that company has some kind of nerve to sue coin doctors, when they offer to doctor (dip) coins in bulk quantities! This, quite frankly, is the reason I despise the lawsuit as published.

 

Does everyone think it would be all right for my to post my unpublished Coin World letter here?

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$ilverHawk

$ilverHawk

Posted
Posted

Please publish the letter. Is there a decline to publish response? Can't wait to hear the ATS responses after the letter drifts over the street.

 

$ilverHawk

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FishyOne

FishyOne

Posted
Posted

Go ahead and post the letter please. "Read between the lines"? Can you post the lines that suggest this? Enquiring minds want to know.

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Frank Provasek

Frank Provasek

Posted
Posted
I was pointing out to PCGS that they MAY have a problem with there dipping.

 

I was told they grade and then dip the good ones by the bulk submission administrator at the PCGS office a few months ago.Just posting verifiable facts..

 

 

Something stinks here. Table 126 is Mike Ellis, who has worked as a grader with ANACS and ICG, and most recently David Lawrence's discontinued DGS service.

He's probably one of the top 3 variety guys in the world.

 

Ellis has a new firm secondpartygrading.com which seems to

compete with CAC (a verifying sticker on slabs.)

 

I have exchanged emails with Mike for probably 20 years, back when I had

a B&M store and he worked for Jay Krugjohann at South Park Coins. I have a few archived.

 

Mike Ellis writes in standard business-letter style English, and knows the difference between there, their, and they're. This new Grade-It person does not. Grade-it still can't communicate which types of coins he sent it...Silver dollars, bullion eagles, Franklins or what? What is a 1962 ms67fbs ?

 

First he says he checked a box on the PCGS submission form to instruct them to dip his coins, then he says he was told they automatically dip the "good ones."

(My PCGS forms from about a year ago have no such checkoff box)

 

And the only time I have heard about PCGS dipping anything was if coin turned ugly in the slab because it was dipped before and not rinsed properly, and PCGS offered to fix it.

 

It's just preposterous to think that PCGS would heavily hairline 60%

of the coins submitted to them, and then grade them MS66.

 

And then the taunts to slug it out with PCGS which will be a couple of tables down at FUN...

 

All sounds more like a dirty trick setup to smear PCGS using Ellis as the patsy.

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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And the only time I have heard about PCGS dipping anything was if coin turned ugly in the slab because it was dipped before and not rinsed properly, and PCGS offered to fix it.

PCGS is well-known to have offered to dip coins upon request. As far as I know, they've offered the service since day one of their operation. There wasn't a prerequisite that the coin to be dipped be a "problem" coin, either.

 

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
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Go ahead and post the letter please. "Read between the lines"? Can you post the lines that suggest this? Enquiring minds want to know.

I have posted the letter here .

 

I trust that NGC will be OK with that, since apparently, nothing in my letter should prove relevant to them.

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Schatzy

Schatzy

Posted
Posted
I was pointing out to PCGS that they MAY have a problem with there dipping.

 

I was told they grade and then dip the good ones by the bulk submission administrator at the PCGS office a few months ago.Just posting verifiable facts..

 

 

Something stinks here. Table 126 is Mike Ellis, who has worked as a grader with ANACS and ICG, and most recently David Lawrence's discontinued DGS service.

He's probably one of the top 3 variety guys in the world.

 

Ellis has a new firm secondpartygrading.com which seems to

compete with CAC (a verifying sticker on slabs.)

 

I have exchanged emails with Mike for probably 20 years, back when I had

a B&M store and he worked for Jay Krugjohann at South Park Coins. I have a few archived.

 

Mike Ellis writes in standard business-letter style English, and knows the difference between there, their, and they're. This new Grade-It person does not. Grade-it still can't communicate which types of coins he sent it...Silver dollars, bullion eagles, Franklins or what? What is a 1962 ms67fbs ?

 

First he says he checked a box on the PCGS submission form to instruct them to dip his coins, then he says he was told they automatically dip the "good ones."

(My PCGS forms from about a year ago have no such checkoff box)

 

And the only time I have heard about PCGS dipping anything was if coin turned ugly in the slab because it was dipped before and not rinsed properly, and PCGS offered to fix it.

 

It's just preposterous to think that PCGS would heavily hairline 60%

of the coins submitted to them, and then grade them MS66.

 

And then the taunts to slug it out with PCGS which will be a couple of tables down at FUN...

 

All sounds more like a dirty trick setup to smear PCGS using Ellis as the patsy.

 

So what did you think about the coins?

 

edit....I will also be curious what James thinks!!

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Conder101

Conder101

Posted
Posted
PCGS is well-known to have offered to dip coins upon request. As far as I know, they've offered the service since day one of their operation. There wasn't a prerequisite that the coin to be dipped be a "problem" coin, either.

In the beginning they claimed they would not slab dipped coins, of course they did. And at times they have admitted to dipping coins and then later denied that they ever have.

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