Need help from the Buffalo guys....

[Bruceswar]

I am by no means an expert in this series... I got a coin long time ago.. marked as UNC...... I think the coin looks MS.... But I could be totally wrong..... What do you think....

 

 

[andy007]

judging from the picture, it appears to be used, or have some rub. Appears AU55-58, really hard to tell from the position the coin is angled at, do you have a normal, straight on shot of the coin?

[Bruceswar]

I will get one...

[Bruceswar]

Here you go...

 

 

[andy007]

hmmm, that looks much better, but very hard to tell, looks like it is anywhere in the AU58-MS63 range. I would be more concerned with getting rid of the green at 11 o'clock on the obverse.

[Bruceswar]

Yeah... that does look bad.. I will try to get rid of that if I am going to submit it...

[jom]

The coin is NOT AU as far as I can tell. It's probably just a low end UNC.

 

Use this guide:

 

 

Where you see "S" are areas that sometimes do not strike up completely.

 

Where use see the "W" are areas to look for wear. It works real well by using the reverse Buff's butt. The point on the top of the Buff is usually where the first "plateau" of wear will show on the coin. Once you see the wear it is clear as day. I don't see that on your coin.

 

jom

[dakra]

 

I'd side with Jom as he's more experienced then me. If I had to grade it, I would lean more towards an AU grade. Then again, I thought the one above would grade higher and it came back an MS62.

 

Dave

[jom]

dakra: From the looks for the obverse your coin could be a gem. BUT...it's just a picture and we all know you can't really tell from a picture. It also depends on the reverse. Is it fully struck?

 

As to my coin above: You would think that mine is a higher grade than, say, Bruce's 37-S. I think the 37-S coin is MS60 or 61 given that here isn't much luster (in fact, none). Mine has luster BUT...it's AU! You really can't tell from the pic but there is rub on the Buffs butt, more so than the 37-S. If you saw them in person it would be clear cut....at least I think so given the picture of the 37-S anyway....

 

jom

[dakra]

Jom,

I'm at work, I will see if I can post a closer shot of the obv/rev later tonight. I'm still new to the buffalo series but I definately though this would upgrade... maybe I'm missing something.

 

Dave

[Bruceswar]

See that is just the thing about pictures.... The buffalo I have has some luster to it.... but I can't seem to capture it...

[jom]

Dakra: I can't see the date all that clear. Is that a 1913? If so, it has weird luster since that first year most Buffs are satiny rather than brilliant (blast-like) luster. If it is a 13 I'd guess it was a type 2.

 

jom

[dakra]

Jom,

It is a 1913 Type I and the coin looks like it was just minted... I'm probably just saying that because it's mine. I don't have the insert in front of me but it was in an AGC MS63 slab, I really felt confident that it could upgrade but it returned in an NGC MS62 slab. Here are some photo's of the obv and rev.

 

and

 

again, I'm new at collecting the buffs but if I had to compare it to a series I'm more familiar with (Washington Quarters) I would say it is definately GemBU. I believe the resolution will allow you to zoom in and get a better idea... as of yet, I'm still learning my camera.

 

Thanks,

Dave

[jom]

I was at Long Beach a few weeks ago and I saw what I thought was a great 19-P Buff. It was graded MS65 by...Numistrust (argh!). It had a real nice bluish cast to it and it seemed like a possible gem under the naked eye. BUT...under close inspection the coin had been clearly cleaned (ie hairlined). The grading company just didn't have a clue.....

 

I just don't see a problem with this coin of yours...based on the picture. BUT...NGC knows what they are doing. My best guess is that there are some hairlines somewhere that degrade the coin. I mean, it's got good luster, it's not a market graded AU so what else can it be? Something more subtle is my guess....

 

jom

[dakra]

I wondered if I cracked it out and resubmitted it, if I would get better results. I mean, MS62 seems sort of like a junk grade. but then again, I'm not very experienced with the buffalo's and could be just wasting money by resubmitting it. Since you are probably more experienced with the series, what would you grade it based on the picture? I'll admit to where I thought it would grade after you grade it

 

Thanks,

Dave

[dakra]

Okay, I thought it would go MS64... possible MS65 but take a look at the tail, not being very defined. I know in your pic you point the area out as being wear related. I don't see wear on the thigh and figured it was more of a strike issue that the tail was not more defined.

All in all, it's a great coin and the grade on the slab really isn't all that important...cough, cough...

 

Dave

[jom]

The tail detail (heh) doesn't have much to do with it. Use a halogen lamp and see if you can find some hairlines.... Other than that I just don't know...there HAS to be a reason for the 62 grade.

 

jom

[dakra]

I don't see hairlines but then again there might be something I am overlooking. I figure as I get more expertise in the set, I will then look back and find why it was graded MS62. Of course, I think it's a screaming beauty. Thanks Jom.

 

Dave

[bigd5]

Dakra,

Look at the head detail of the bison. Notice it's fairly mushy? 1913 Buffalo's are known for exceptional strikes, luster and eye appeal. Your coin has a very weak reverse (for the date), and won't grade higher than ms/63 at pcgs or ngc. The obverse image is a bit dark on my monitor, but the coin does seem to have a few hits/nicks/ticks in the braid area.

The services will be VERY tough with this date. Keep that in mind.

 

[jom]

Look at the head detail of the bison. Notice it's fairly mushy?

 

I must be blind. Even after you pointed it out I STILL can't see that.

 

jom