1838-C Quarter Eagle

[cameron12x]

Any thoughts on a grade?

 

 

 

I apologize in advance for the poor photos. I'll have better ones this weekend.

 

Only 7,880 were minted, with less than 200 survivors. My first-ever Charlotte gold.

 

[James_OldeTowne]

These images make it very difficult to even guess. Probably AU-something?

[Bugmann1974]

Its in a genuine holder, right?

[cameron12x]

Correct... it's in a genuine holder.

 

Just curious about the details or "net" grade, and also possibly whether I should break it out and re-submit.

[BillJones]

It looks to have AU sharpness, but the scratch to the left of Ms. Liberty's chin and some other problems that seem to be implied in the photot would make me say "genuine." Still it is a very nice example of the first Charlotte coin.

[cameron12x]

I'm guessing it has at least VF-35 details, but could be net-graded as low as VF-20, due to cleaning and some major marks/damage. Won't know for sure until I have it in hand.

 

The poor photos from the seller really aren't too good and make it hard to grade.

[L1ncolnF4n]

XF details

[michael]

au details

 

a decent, really scarce, in demand coin

[cameron12x]

I've got the coin in hand now, with my own quick photos:

 

 

 

The lighting in the original photos is way too bright, but do these look like the same coin?

 

Any thoughts on cleaning, damage, and an ultimate grade for the coin in my photos? Thanks!

[Bugmann1974]

With the e-bay pictures I thought you did well.

 

With your pictures I think you did fantastic!

 

As far as the dig under the chin. That slab is pretty marked up, is there a scratch on the slab there?

 

It is definately the same coin, I see some smaller dings and other things that match up.

[cameron12x]

With the e-bay pictures I thought you did well.

 

With your pictures I think you did fantastic!

 

As far as the dig under the chin. That slab is pretty marked up, is there a scratch on the slab there?

 

It is definately the same coin, I see some smaller dings and other things that match up.

 

Thanks for the nice compliments!

 

No matter what lighting I use, I can't find that dig under the chin in the coin that I have in hand. I can't even see a mark on the slab there. Strange!

 

The certification numbers DO match up.

[michael]

I've got the coin in hand now, with my own quick photos:

 

 

 

The lighting in the original photos is way too bright, but do these look like the same coin?

 

Any thoughts on cleaning, damage, and an ultimate grade for the coin in my photos? Thanks!

 

your photos are excellent!!!!!! wow (thumbs u

 

 

with your photos you got an vf++++++/xf details coin

 

 

now from the photos and in hand sight seen might be different

 

but from the photos i bet if this coin was sent to pcgs a few times one of those times it would come back in a graded holder

[michael]

if the slab (grade) don't fit............... resubmit

[cameron12x]

Thanks for the compliments on the coin... I think I might resubmit at some point.

 

It looks like my specimen may have come from the same dies as this one at Heritage.

 

That could explain the (planchet void?) on the cheek, the stuff going on with the rim at 11:00--12:00 on the obverse, and the die break at 10:00 and weak overall strike on the reverse?

 

Either that, or they were both used as jewelry at some point, due to the "hit" on the cheek? (maybe not a planchet void afterall?)

 

[cameron12x]

Well, this has been quite an educational experience for me, particularly with regard to coin flash photography.

 

After more than a dozen tries looking for them under magnification and natural light with my inexperienced eyes, I have finally "found" the two scratches/marks which appeared so obvious in the seller's photographs. The original photographs make them look at least a thousand times (3 orders of magnitude) worse than what they really are. I mean, you really have to look very, very, very hard to find them, and only with a very, very, very small specific angle of light coming from a single point source of light. This is not a knock on the seller, but talk about presenting a coin in the worst possible light? The original photos may have turned some bidders away. The long mark which didn't show up in the original photos (but does in mine) between stars 13/14 is far more visible when observing under natural light. That said, it's still not bad at all (to my eyes).

 

I originally complained about the apparent weak strike on the reverse, but it's now my understanding that this is common on Charlotte issues.

 

The only remaining question for me revolves around the depression in the cheek area on the obverse and some of the uneven wear on the shield on the reverse. As mentioned in one of my previous posts, it looks almost identical to a specimen auctioned at Heritage about five years ago. Is it a planchet void? Or a depression caused because both coins were used as jewelry at some point? I don't know, and would love to hear feedback from anyone who might have an opinion on it. What kind of damage/wear does jewelry mounting typically do?

 

Even if previously mounted/worn as jewelry, I believe that this coin will be a keeper for me...

[James_OldeTowne]

This is a fabulous coin in my opinion, with AU details for sure. If it were mine, I would remove it from the slab immediately and never look back. This is an historic coin that actually have the opportunity to enjoy without the encumbrance of a gigantic hulk of useless plastic surrounding it.

[cameron12x]

Nothwistanding any cleaning and possible damage, how would you rate the details of my '38-C quarter eagle to this one auctioned at Heritage some time ago?

 

My Obverse

 

Heritage Obverse

 

My Reverse

 

Heritage Reverse

 

It looks like they have similar strike characteristics, including the planchet void/depression on the obverse. Your thoughts?

 

Cheers,

Jeff

[prudden]

Nothwistanding any cleaning and possible damage, how would you rate the details of my '38-C quarter eagle to this one auctioned at Heritage some time ago?

 

My Obverse

 

Heritage Obverse

 

My Reverse

 

Heritage Reverse

 

It looks like they have similar strike characteristics, including the planchet void/depression on the obverse. Your thoughts?

 

Cheers,

Jeff

 

You are right.The voids are identical.Not post mint damage,in my non expert opinion. Yours looks better,especially the obverse.I think if it doesn't have obvious cleaning marks you have a shot at a normal grade.But why bother unless you mean to flip it? Nice Gold.I'd love to have it.

This is the kind of auction I look for.Something with a "problem" or bad photo that shows something that really isn't there or is exaggerated by Macro photos.

[$ilverHawk]

Your coin is clearly superior in strike to the Heritage example. Did you see the green spot under the ear of the Heritage example?

 

As far as being a jewelry mount, I don't see any rim indents/marks that would lead to that conclusion. AU details at least and possibly a clear AU grade.

 

Very nice buy.

 

$ilverHawk

[cameron12x]

Compiling responses from this thread and a thread from across the pond (PCGS) and including private messages, here is the consensus from 21 people:

 

Low: 32.5

High: 55

Average: 46.8

Mode: 50 (most common grade)

 

If it weren't for the cleaning, I'd say it should grade at XF-40. But it has been cleaned (like almost all Classic branch mint gold).

 

I just want to know what the "damage" is now...

[RockMyAmadeus]

Abraham Lincoln was a spry 29 years old when this coin was made...

 

 

[cameron12x]

Pros/cons of keeping this in the PCGS "genuine" holder with the '98' damage attribute versus submitting to NGC? Effect on valuation?

[michael]

break out send to ngc raw

 

good luck!

[cameron12x]

break out send to ngc raw

 

good luck!

That's what I'm thinking about doing. What's the worst that can happen? I suppose the best that can happen is that it will grade. But I don't think it will, due to an ancient cleaning. But I'd like to get ride of the "damaged" moniker. Heck, I love the coin.

[michael]

break out send to ngc raw

 

good luck!

That's what I'm thinking about doing. What's the worst that can happen? I suppose the best that can happen is that it will grade. But I don't think it will, due to an ancient cleaning. But I'd like to get ride of the "damaged" moniker. Heck, I love the coin.

 

cant get any worse other than a details grade at ngc and i think in my opinion you got a better than average chance for a non problem graded holder (thumbs u

 

good luck and let me know how it all works out

 

send this coin in raw

 

 

[cameron12x]

break out send to ngc raw

 

good luck!

That's what I'm thinking about doing. What's the worst that can happen? I suppose the best that can happen is that it will grade. But I don't think it will, due to an ancient cleaning. But I'd like to get ride of the "damaged" moniker. Heck, I love the coin.

 

cant get any worse other than a details grade at ngc and i think in my opinion you got a better than average chance for a non problem graded holder (thumbs u

 

good luck and let me know how it all works out

 

send this coin in raw

 

Thanks for the advice! I'm going to consult with a local dealer who used to be a grader.

 

Depending on what he says, I may crack out and submit raw. I see limited downside (other than the cost of submission) and definitely some possible upside.

[MercuryMan]

I know know about the grade but it's a great coin.