Help Identifying European Uniface Copper Medal

[PonyPuller-migration]

A recent acquisition from Europe, with some nice color on it. But I have no idea of any history associated with it. Can anyone identify this medal or any information about it?

 

 

The medal is 50mm in diameter, with a smooth edge. There are no visible markings as to the composition or artist.

 

Many thanks!

- Mark

[TJ'S Coins]

A stunning medal.

 

My guess, and it is only that, is French in origin. The beading around the image reminds me of other French metals. Better authorities will hopefully provide you a factual and definitive answer.

 

No matter where it is from I love the high relief of the horse and the toning it has undergone.

[PonyPuller-migration]

TJ,

 

I agree on the probable French origin as well. The seller I acquired it from was located in France, and I've spent a few hours looking at images of other French medals from the late 18th century / early 19th century, trying to find this one. I did see a few with very similar beading, but nothing close in the design itself.

 

My photo skills are a bit lacking, and I'd say that this picture of the medal is only capturing about 75-80% of the effect of the color. I need to play with the lighting a bit I think, as the details of the horses head are a little lost in the shadow.

 

Interestingly enough, the seller's photos didn't really show the color at all, and I purchased the piece merely because I found the design to be very attractive. Once it was in-hand and I saw the color, I was really quite happy!

 

- Mark

[TJ'S Coins]

What a wonderful bonus to have such attractive color on a design you like!

[Conder101]

Looks like an unfinished piece, like a die trial.

[HiHoAudio]

I agree it may be a die trial piece too, amd could be one of a kind.

 

Nice medals either way and the toning is amazing.

[PonyPuller-migration]

Here's an interesting update regarding this piece...

 

I've managed to acquire another related specimen, with some differences.

 

 

This one is silver (Argent), and is 55mm in diameter, as compared to 50mm for the original copper medal I originally posted.

 

Additionally, this piece includes the name of an artist / engraver, F. Vernon, (Frederic Vernon 1858-1912), and has additional details included in the exergue and on the reverse.

 

The engraving on the reverse indicates this piece was awarded in 1913, at least a year after the death of the artist / engraver.

 

The silver piece is stamped with a parallelogram on the edge, marked "ARGENT", and has some other edge markings I cannot identify.

 

What I find very interesting here is that the copper piece in my original post has no identifying markings, and is dramatically sharper in detail than this silver piece.

 

The silver piece, however, is larger in diameter, and has greater relief. The horse on the silver piece is significantly raised above the field, more so than on the copper piece. Additionally, the silver piece includes the additional details below the horse.

 

This leaves me wondering if F. Vernon really is the artist for this piece, or if he merely utilized an older medal as the starting point for this larger silver medal, and added additional details to the obverse and reverse, including his name. Would something like this have been a common practice at the Paris Medal mint?

 

 

All of this is rather fascinating to me, and hopefully I can find some more information on these!

 

- Mark

 

 

[cpm9ball]

Here's an interesting update regarding this piece...

 

I've managed to acquire another related specimen, with some differences.

 

 

This one is silver (Argent), and is 55mm in diameter, as compared to 50mm for the original copper medal I originally posted.

 

Additionally, this piece includes the name of an artist / engraver, F. Vernon, (Frederic Vernon 1858-1912), and has additional details included in the exergue and on the reverse.

 

The engraving on the reverse indicates this piece was awarded in 1913, at least a year after the death of the artist / engraver.

 

The silver piece is stamped with a parallelogram on the edge, marked "ARGENT", and has some other edge markings I cannot identify.

 

What I find very interesting here is that the copper piece in my original post has no identifying markings, and is dramatically sharper in detail than this silver piece.

 

The silver piece, however, is larger in diameter, and has greater relief. The horse on the silver piece is significantly raised above the field, more so than on the copper piece. Additionally, the silver piece includes the additional details below the horse.

 

This leaves me wondering if F. Vernon really is the artist for this piece, or if he merely utilized an older medal as the starting point for this larger silver medal, and added additional details to the obverse and reverse, including his name. Would something like this have been a common practice at the Paris Medal mint?

 

 

All of this is rather fascinating to me, and hopefully I can find some more information on these!

 

- Mark

 

 

Mark,

 

The silver medal is likely the original that was designed by Vernon, and the engraving on the reverse, while being the year after his death, is not indicative of when the medal was produced. (Note that the reverse is engraved and not part of the design.) "Raid Hippique" is a long distance horse race, and this one took place in Tunisia. The parallelogram indicates that it was struck at a private mint and not the Paris Mint. Apparently, the organizers of the race thought that Vernon's "galloping horse" would be appropriate for the awards.

 

By the way, it is probably coincidence that Vernon's given name was Frederic. It is very common to see the "F" next to the name on French medals. It is an abbreviation for the Latin word "fecit" which means "he made it". It is also not uncommon for, both, private mints and the Paris Mint to combine different obverse and reverse designs when it is requested by a client.

 

In all likelihood, the private mint that produced the original used a reduction lathe to produce the uniface medal and further modified it removing not only the detail in the exergue, but Vernon's name as well.

 

The various Differents (mintmarks) that have been used by the Paris Mint can be found here:

http://fortiter.napoleonicmedals.org/miscellany/poincons.htm

 

Chris

[PonyPuller-migration]

Chris,

 

Fascinating information! I had not considered that the smaller copper piece may have been produced AFTER the larger silver one. I was thinking it was the other way around, and couldn't quite figure out how they'd reproduced the design in a larger medal.

 

I did read on another medal site about using castings for reproducing medals. It mentioned that each generation of a cast medal is smaller in diameter than the previous, due to the shrinkage of the metal as it cools.

 

- Mark

 

 

[cpm9ball]

Medals are cast because they are just too large to be struck. Usually anything in the neighborhood of 100mm is cast. The largest one in my collection that was struck is 81mm.

 

This 1876 award medal is one of my favorites. It was struck in copper, and while it is only 76mm in diameter, it is 9.65mm thick and weighs 9.9ozs.

 

Chris

 

[Bugmann1974]

Chris, that medal is beautiful. I saw a couple at the ANA show over the weekend but just didn't quite have the funds to pick one up.

 

I did however pick up this wonderful english medal. It measures in at 77mm I think.

Cast in Bronze.

 

[cpm9ball]

Ray,

 

George Gammon Adams was a British sculptor and medallist who was born at Staines on April 21, 1821 and died at his residence at Acton Green Lodge, Chiswick on March 4, 1898. Interestingly, in 1868, he received an invitation from the city of Philadelphia to be Master of the Mint, an offer which he didn't accept because he didn't want to be transplanted at the age of 47.

 

I don't think your medal was cast. It doesn't appear to have any porosity that you would associate with a cast medal, and the size is one which is not difficult to strike. Take a look at the edge. If it was cast, you would see a line, or a trace of a line polished off, horizontally from rim to rim. If not, it was struck.

 

Your medal was commissioned by the Corporation of the City of London to commemorate the opening of Blackfriars Bridge and the Holborn Valley Viaduct by the late Queen Victoria. Unfortunately, I think your medal is a restrike. Adams' signature on his medals was invariably: G. G. ADAMS D. F. Note that the obverse signature on yours is G. G. ADAMS . SC: and the reverse signature is G. G. ADAMS . D : SC: It's still a pretty piece.

 

Chris

[Conder101]

Medals could be rendered in different sizes and relief via the use of the Janivior (sp) reducing machine. The Paris Mint had one and they were experts with it. (The US Mint got one in 1907 but were NOT well trained in its use, hence all the troubles they had creating the dies for the 1907 double eagles. Medalic Arts in New York also had one and they could do much better with it. That was why many of the hub reductions made for US coins in the early 20th century were produced by Medalic Arts.)

 

I also think Bugmann1974's medal was struck and not cast. I don't think you could reproduce those fine details and sharp edges with a casting.

[Bugmann1974]

I am not sure why I put that it was cast

 

You guys are correct, it is a struck medal.

 

Chris, Reference numbers for this medal include BHM 2906, E 1604, and Welch 11.

 

I will have to see what I can find out as whether or not it is a restrike.

[cpm9ball]

I am not sure why I put that it was cast

 

You guys are correct, it is a struck medal.

 

Chris, Reference numbers for this medal include BHM 2906, E 1604, and Welch 11.

 

I will have to see what I can find out as whether or not it is a restrike.

 

Ray,

 

The info I provided came from Forrer's Biographical Dictionary of Medallists . However, it does not list reference numbers for any of the medals.

 

Chris

[cpm9ball]

I am not sure why I put that it was cast

 

You guys are correct, it is a struck medal.

 

Chris, Reference numbers for this medal include BHM 2906, E 1604, and Welch 11.

 

I will have to see what I can find out as whether or not it is a restrike.

 

Ray,

 

The info I provided came from Forrer's Biographical Dictionary of Medallists . However, it does not list reference numbers for any of the medals.

 

Chris

 

One other thing........

 

If your medal was 140+ years old, the bronze would have developed a patina and darkened with age, but it looks like it was just struck yesterday.

 

Chris

[Bugmann1974]

I was using a different kind of lighting than normal when I took those pictures and forgot to set the white balance. Therefore the color is not quite right in those pics. It is darker in hand.

 

In fact, check it out...

 

Go down to 1869 and find his listing for this medal. I know the pictures are small but I can just make out that the signature on at least the obverse is the same as mine. The color on mine is almost exactly like the one listed on his site as well.

 

I also have the original case for mine too.

 

http://www.medalsoftheworld.com/page17.html

 

 

[cpm9ball]

I was using a different kind of lighting than normal when I took those pictures and forgot to set the white balance. Therefore the color is not quite right in those pics. It is darker in hand.

 

In fact, check it out...

 

Go down to 1869 and find his listing for this medal. I know the pictures are small but I can just make out that the signature on at least the obverse is the same as mine. The color on mine is almost exactly like the one listed on his site as well.

 

I also have the original case for mine too.

 

http://www.medalsoftheworld.com/page17.html

 

 

In that case, please disregard my last PM.

 

Chris

[Bugmann1974]

Will do, Chris, Will do

 

[PonyPuller-migration]

It's been a few years, but I've come across yet another variant to the copper medal I wrote about in my original post.

 

 

This looks to be a 3rd generation variant, as much of the background has been removed / replaced with a much simpler design.

 

- Mark

[satootoko]

Medals are cast because they are just too large to be struck. Usually anything in the neighborhood of 100mm is cast. The largest one in my collection that was struck is 81mm.

This year's Olympic/Paralympic Games medals, struck by the London Royal Mint, are 85mm. The striking pressure of 900 tonnes is equivalent to about 992 US tons, or nearly 200,000 pounds!