Counterfeit GSA Slabs?

[gbsten]

Following is a list ,by date, of the quantities auctioned by the GSA and the total mintage of that year. This explains the rarity and hence the premiums paid for some of these dates. Note that a "deluge" of 1893cc Morgans in GSA holders would be tough to pull off. Also, the people hired to sort these coins were not ver astute numismatically and merely pulled coins with tarnish (we like the term "toning") and moved them to a different category. The "white" coins went into holders marked "uncirculated". Those that had color or excessive bag marks went into holders without the word "uncirculated". Don't put too much emphasis on that word as some of the highest graded and most beautifully toned GSA Carson City Morgans are in cases without the word "uncirculated". The example attached is from CT's CC's #1 set of CC Morgans in GSA holders and is a Top Pop.

 

-------------- GSA-----------Mintage

 

1878 CC----60,993------2,212,000

1879 CC------4,123--------756,000

1880 CC---131,529--------591,000

1881 CC---147,485--------296,000

1882 CC---605,029-----1,133,000

1883 CC---755,518-----1,204,000

1884 CC---962,638-----1,136,000

1885 CC---148,285--------228,000

1889 CC-------------1--------350,000

1890 CC-------3,949-----2,309,041

1891 CC-------5,687-----1,618,000

1892 CC-------------1-----1,352,000

1893 CC-------------1--------677,000

 

Above figures are from Van Allen/Mallis Comprehensive Catalog and Encyclopedia of Morgan & Peace Dollars

 

These figures are from the GSA audit which was conducted prior to the sale. There were no 1889, 1892, or 1893 CC dollars offered in the GSA sale (Bowers, Guide Book of Morgan Silver Dollars, pg. 205). There were however almost 3,000,000 CC's sold covering only 10 dates. Even the lower-mintage '80, '81, and '85's are readily available. I doubt an increase would be noticed. I do agree with the statements considering the sort. Some of the best coins by current standards reside in the lower-quality slabs, where bidding commenced at $15 each!

[BillJones]

What are everyone's thoughts on the on the GSA holders. I'm seeing these as the next chinese works of art. Lots of strange sales on ebay of these recently.

 

OK, who can tell me what's wrong with this picture?

 

The shown in the picture is heavily toned and GSA coins with heavy toning did not make it into GSA Uncirculated holders.

 

The "graders" for the GSA were mostly college kids who got crash course in grading. Pieces with many bag marks and lots of toning when into the "plain" holders. The "Uncirculated" coins had be white and have very few marks.

[CHABSENTIA]

This coin is a typical ebay wonder...item#310198616377 1880 CC

 

I note that he sold this coin also on January 27th and received positive "5 star, great for ebay" feedback. But here it is, back on the block? I guess the guy who paid $615 for it liked the seller more than the coin. I don't mean to bore you with my observations but I think it's important to note that there may be fake GSA slabs. [/quote

Not any "bore" involved. I see that the statistics are posted again in a post just ahead. While it would be hard to tell if there with the GSA issues with thousands of units isseued there are three that only have "one" and cost the most and would be very hard. The person who bought it for $ 615,.00 was sucked in and returned it. Some wouldnt have returned it. A five star rating mrans nothing many times as been posted here. If you arent sure or cant tell then purchase a graded one by NGC or PCGS.

[Conder101]

There were non - CC dollars issued in the GSA slab

Not in that style of slab. The non-CC dollars in hard pack slabs did not say Carson City on the slab.

 

A heavily toned dollar would not be in that holder either. I do note that the edges of the slab are not visible and I'm not sure if the coin is IN a holder or just in the insert. I see no reflections, no glare, and no scratches in the outer plastic.

[just-john]

GSA holders Morgan silver dollars are childs play for counterfeiters in CHINA .When they can make your perscription drugs computer chips and aircraft parts.GSA stuff is childs play and the only reason were not up to our necks in it it doesn't pay as that well . Know how they get rid of toxic waste in China soak wood in it and export it or sell it as firewood to heat homes.Figure soneone here will think of that soon and then we will be copying them .

[CHABSENTIA]

There were non - CC dollars issued in the GSA slab

Not in that style of slab. The non-CC dollars in hard pack slabs did not say Carson City on the slab.

 

A heavily toned dollar would not be in that holder either. I do note that the edges of the slab are not visible and I'm not sure if the coin is IN a holder or just in the insert. I see no reflections, no glare, and no scratches in the outer plastic.

 

I couldnt tell you. If there is "CC" on my GSA "CC" slabs then the words are covered by the NGC Security tapes. I have noticed the non CC hard pack holders for sale. I have never seen any that were a reasonable price. All are at least twice the Numismedia price so I wouldnt even consider somethng at that multiple of retail,I am sure that there are still people who pay the price.

 

I still do not understand the large interest in the area. The example given in this Forum could have been photoshopped to prove a point. For that matter any seller could photoshop a coin. It is also done all the time by different lighting etc to make a coin look more appealing.etc. There are Counterfeits in other coins as well as the above and there are altered coins and cleaned coins etc as well as the above. The Sophisticated buyer is already going to be aware of the possibilties of counterfeits and other possible irregularities. The less sophisticated is going to outnumber the sophisticated by a large margin and many if not most of the less sophisitcated probably dont care for whatever reason.

 

If you are unsure then buy it already graded from NGC or PCGS. There are a lot of good deals out there on Morgans now which are already graded.

[CHABSENTIA]

There were non - CC dollars issued in the GSA slab

Not in that style of slab. The non-CC dollars in hard pack slabs did not say Carson City on the slab.

 

A heavily toned dollar would not be in that holder either. I do note that the edges of the slab are not visible and I'm not sure if the coin is IN a holder or just in the insert. I see no reflections, no glare, and no scratches in the outer plastic.

 

I couldnt tell you. If there is "CC" on my GSA "CC" slabs then the words are covered by the NGC Security tapes. I have noticed the non CC hard pack holders for sale. I have never seen any that were a reasonable price. All are at least twice the Numismedia price so I wouldnt even consider somethng at that multiple of retail,I am sure that there are still people who pay the price.

 

I still do not understand the large interest in the area. The example given in this Forum could have been photoshopped to prove a point. For that matter any seller could photoshop a coin. It is also done all the time by different lighting etc to make a coin look more appealing.etc. There are Counterfeits in other coins as well as the above and there are altered coins and cleaned coins etc as well as the above. The Sophisticated buyer is already going to be aware of the possibilties of counterfeits and other possible irregularities. The less sophisticated is going to outnumber the sophisticated by a large margin and many if not most of the less sophisitcated probably dont care for whatever reason.

 

If you are unsure then buy it already graded from NGC or PCGS. There are a lot of good deals out there on Morgans now which are already graded.

 

I made a mistake and was thinking of something else. Condor is correct and there is Carson City written on the slab in big letters. I was thinking of something else.

 

Again, The non GSA holders such as thise sold being on Ebay are a bigger concern for me. There is an NGC graded 1904-O advertised on EBay in a GSA holder. It is an MS64,. It is advertised that only four exist and that this is the finest. This is true, The four are 1960,1962,1963, and 1964 with only one in each year, The Numismedia price is $60.00 for this MS64.

 

The starting bid is $7500.00 and the "Buy it now" is $8500,00. Then there are the "cleaned" and "altered" raw Morgans etc.