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Found an AT coin in an NGC holder.....what next?

Started by kryptonitecomics,

37 posts in this topic

kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

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While purchasing some coins on Ebay for resale I ended up buying a dime with a real bad image so I had to wait for the coin to arrive to see what the toning looked liked. The minute I saw it I knew the coin was AT....matter of fact I can pretty much tell that it was most likely submitted by one of our favorite coin doctors on Ebay. Besides the obvious fact that all I collect is toned coins and have for a number of years, I have also experimented enough with regards to toning coins that I know one when I see one. The color is painted on with no luster showing through on the obverse......and the reverse is white.

 

If this coin were to have spent time in an album then I would expect to see at least some toning on the reverse opposite the darkly toned side. This coin is tough to image becuase frankly even when well let the toning prevents any light from reflecting off the coins surface...

 

 

 

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So while I know I will not be attempting to resell the coin, would showing the coin to NGC at FUN be a good start? If I don't recoup my $15 I think I will live but I think they need to see some of what is getting past the graders....believe me this is a no brainer AT coin.

 

 

I must admit that in all of my years collecting this is the first time I have purchased a toned coin in either a PCGS or NGC holder and was 100% certain it's AT......sometime a coin will look a bit off but not in this case. I guess it's possible the coin looked better when submitted and has continued to tone while in the holder hm

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

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There are ways a coin can tone on one side and not the other...but in this case the overall look of the toning in hand (painted on) and the fact that there is no luster visable under the toning make me feel 100% certain that the toning is artificial.

 

The toning looks in appearance to be album toning to me and usually this type of toning imparts some color on both sides of the coins especially when the toning has progressed to the point of being very dark....it's not like albums are airtight which is why most of the time a coin will have nearly matching toning on both sides if it spent time in an album.

 

 

I am bringing the coin to FUN with me so if anyone has any doubts it's AT.....take a look in person and then let me know what you think ;)

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Coindude

Coindude

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I have to say, I've seen coins that have toned similarly. I wouldn't be so fast to put the AT tag on it. But, you have the coin in hand and I don't.

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

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That's the thing.....the color isn't the problem.....the color painted on the surface which doesn't allow any light to hit the surface is the giveaway ;)

 

 

Let's just say hypothetically that you guys believe me that the coin is AT.....what would you personally do with said coin???

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HaydenTubbs

HaydenTubbs

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Let's just say hypothetically that you guys believe me that the coin is AT.....what would you personally do with said coin???

 

Probably send a PM/e-mail to Jay Turner and see if you could meet some time during the FUN show so he could examine the coin.

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SkyMan

SkyMan

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...Let's just say hypothetically that you guys believe me that the coin is AT.....what would you personally do with said coin???

 

Why put it on fleaBay of course and call it a MONSTER toner. :baiting:

 

Heck given the multiple definitions of "monster" you would even be absolutely honest.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, check it with NGC, it's certainly worth the walk by. As to what to do with it if they don't take it off the market, you can:

 

1- sell it... caveat emptor,

 

2- sell it while mentioning that you think it is AT,

 

3- keep it as an example to show around to other collectors,

 

4- give the seller a proctological exam with the slab if you ever see him, and you believe he knew it to be AT.

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jonthecoinjunky

jonthecoinjunky

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I've seen many naturally toned coins which the color is strictly on one side. I can't tell from the photo if it would be AT or not. I cannot tell you how many PCGS/NGC coins I have seen with toning that I would cleary call AT.

 

The toning of this coin almost looks consistent with one from a mint set. Sometime the dimes get real dark where you wouldn't see light through the coin.

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jonthecoinjunky

jonthecoinjunky

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As far as if it is really AT. I'd hang onto, personally, it as a nice example of how you should always buy the coin in place of the holder. Even PCGS & NGC make mistakes upon occasion. Your only out $15; use it as a conversation piece with other collectors in order to show your knowledge about the piece and AT toning.

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SkyMan

SkyMan

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...The toning of this coin almost looks consistent with one from a mint set. Sometime the dimes get real dark where you wouldn't see light through the coin.

 

Classic mint set toning ended in 1959 when the mint switched away from cardboard/paper mint set holders.

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

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The lack of shine thru lustre is a giveaway.
No it isn't. There are countless obviously original toned coins at various grade levels without luster shining through the toning..
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braddick

braddick

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I bet NGC would triple your investment to buy that one back; keep us posted on what NGC does.

 

I bet they wouldn't.

Why should the graders of NGC substitute their judgment for another?

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

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The lack of shine thru lustre is a giveaway.
No it isn't. There are countless obviously original toned coins at various grade levels without luster shining through the toning..

 

I will let you see it at the show tomorrow and you tell me what you think....the only time I have ever seen a coin with the toning that totally hides the surface like this was via AT coins....like the ones I can cook up myself lol

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coinman1794

coinman1794

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The absence of toning on one side is not an indication of AT. It very much resembles a roll-end toned coin, which are pretty common on 1960s silver. However, you seem to believe that the toning itself is questionable, and that, I cannot comment on from the images provided. It may very well be AT.

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MunkyMan95

MunkyMan95

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AT?

 

Prove it.

 

 

Playing devil's advocate here. I know your experience, and if you say it's AT, I believe you 100%.

 

But NGC does not know your experience, and they have no reason to give you the benefit of the doubt. I agree with Pat on this one - I doubt they would buy it back.

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

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What's funny was I was at the show all day yesterday and forgot where I put the coin so I couldn't show them...I found it this morning so I will take it back with me Saturday.

 

My least concern is being made whole on a $15 dollar coins....but if it is AT like I believe it to be then it could be a learning coin for the graders. (thumbs u

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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

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What's funny was I was at the show all day yesterday and forgot where I put the coin so I couldn't show them...I found it this morning so I will take it back with me Saturday.

 

My least concern is being made whole on a $15 dollar coins....but if it is AT like I believe it to be then it could be a learning coin for the graders. (thumbs u

 

Shane, I won't be at the show until Saturday. Don't buy everything. Leave some for me!

 

Chris

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

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What's funny was I was at the show all day yesterday and forgot where I put the coin so I couldn't show them...I found it this morning so I will take it back with me Saturday.

 

My least concern is being made whole on a $15 dollar coins....but if it is AT like I believe it to be then it could be a learning coin for the graders. (thumbs u

 

Shane, I won't be at the show until Saturday. Don't buy everything. Leave some for me!

 

Chris

 

 

All of my money is gone buddy so what ever scraps are left are all yours lol

 

 

But I will see you there of course :acclaim:

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

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Here are some better images.....the yellow gold which is in the early stages of the toning progression should not impair the luster on a coin.....on this coin it's literally like looking through yellow saran wrap.....virtually no light is reflected off the coin even when right under the bulb (as imaged).....does that sound like any NT roosie you have heard of? They are a very lusterous series and while the date may or may not be known for booming luster to have none present with a thick crust just doesn't appear correct.

 

Keep in mind that in the past 5 or 6 year...in hand...I have looked at thousands of toners and this is only the second with this charasteristic and the other one was in a PCI holder. When I showed the PCI Morgan around at a FUN show years ago.....Ron sirna, Larry Sheppard, and several other known experts all thought it was iffy at best and would never get into a PCGS or NGC holder.

 

This coin has that same painted on look.....but I guess all this talk by me means nothing unless I at least let NGC take a look.

 

 

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coinman1794

coinman1794

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I see some things that resemble AT, and some that resemble advanced roll-end toning as typically seen on 1960s silver. Either way, the coin is very ugly and not worth expense of sending to NGC.

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