Very high number of Morgans at Ebay

[prudden]

I've noticed the number of Morgan dollars for auction/sale on ebay rising in the last couple of months. I just do a simple search for the word "Morgan" under Coins and Paper money. Up until recently that search would get me 12k to 14k hits. Today I did the same search as ever and it hit 35k. That's triple what I've seen over the last three years!! Even up until two days ago the number was under 20k.Amazing what a recession ill bring out.

[coinman1794]

People are dumping silver.

[World Colonial]

I'm unaware of specifics or even anecdotal examples such as the one you gave, but the only thing surprising to me is that IF this is an indication of a necessity to sell to raise cash, that it took so long.

 

The typical American was already in bad or at best mediocre financial condition even before the beginning of the bear market in 2007, it just took a "credit crunch" (which is not even a real one), a second bear market in a decade and a historical decline in many housing markets to make it evident. Without ridiculously low credit standards and with rising unemployment, many people - a substantial number - either have or will lose the financial capacity to both maintain their former standard of living or even maintain a bare bones middle class lifestyle. Some will recover but many will not.

 

Before this economic fiasco is over, I expect a substantial number of people to sell anything and everything they can to raise cash.

[prudden]

People are dumping silver.

 

Probably.A heck of a lot of them are junk. Good for melt. I wonder if a lot of of these old worn Morgans really get melted every time there is a)a recession and b).silver prices rise. I suppose there's no need to melt them since they are already in convenient shapes for storage in tubes.

[nwcs]

I doubt they would get melted since they have greater value than their intrinsic value.

[WoodenJefferson]

Rotating their stock.

[CHABSENTIA]

So true. I dont know what it is now but a year ago the average credit card debt per family was 11K. I saw on CNBC this morning where Fannie Mae is guaranteeing mortgages with only three percent down. Of course, the credit restrictions are a little higher.I know a few people that used the equity in thir homes to borrow money. Now they have a situation where they cant sell the home for even the amount they owe because of decreased home values. When I closed on my home in December 1979 I had to put 20% down and my total monthly debt payments including the mortgage could not be more than 25% of my monthly income.This economy is 70% driven by consumers. The 10.2% Unemployment average is a joke. People who have been unemployed for more than 6 months and no longer lookin and people who lost full time jobs and had to accept part are nt counted. When you count htese people then the average is 18%.Some Corporations are doing better because there is increased productivity with less people.

 

This is a no brainer. People that are unemployed and people that are trying to save money or sell off silver etc to bring down their debt are not going to be able to contribute to an economy that has to be driven 70% by consumers. When I got married and bought my home in 1979 I saved or invested 10% of my Salary right off the bat. Then after paing for my basic necessities there was nothing left then there was no spending for entertainment etc.Most others around me were living paycheck to paycheck and then some. sometimes times were rough but I am in good shape now.Waht ever happened to the Morals od Aesops Fables?

[World Colonial]

Waht ever happened to the Morals od Aesops Fables?

 

Presumably you mean the one about the grasshopper and the ant. Given that most Americans hardly read, at least many of the younger ones have probably never heard of AESOP or that story.

 

The typical American is a grasshopper. They spend every dime, nearly every dime or even more dimes than they have. Its the predictable consequence to both 80 years of economic distortions which created a mania and the fact that many people today have no idea what it is like to do without.

 

When we hear that there is a "credit crunch" today, that is a LIE. Credit standards are still ridiculously low compared to ANY prudent standard. Over the "long term", I expect credit to become LESS available than it is even today, probably much less. And it will not be available at the favorable interest rates and terms offered now either. The huge number of upcoming defaults, whether outright as I epxect due to deflation or from inflation, will make creditors far less willing to lend in the future. Only a mania and financial intermediation induced them to do so.

 

An example of defaults are the strategic defaults and "walkaways" in real estate. If you listen to conventional thinkers, you would think that these people should be permitted to borrow again. That's nonsense. They may be able to do so but the idea that anyone who voluntarily defaults is any kind of acceptable credit risk is insane.

 

Another idea which is absurd is that the savings rate has increased significantly recently. The reported rise to 4.9% was pathetic and this is now back to 3.3%.

 

The chances of most Americans being able to maintain their living standards with such inadequate savings and excessive debt are nil. Tighter credit, rising or above trend unemployment and falling asset prices will leave most Americans beached on the shore.

 

 

[RWB]

Seasonal migration....

[Conder101]

I doubt they would get melted since they have greater value than their intrinsic value.

If silver continues to rise at some point that will stop being true, and it may be getting close to the point. Those of us who went through the great silver boom of 79/80 have seen it happen before. AU-Unc dollars which a few months before the dealers couldn't move for $15 each could now be flipped to the smelters at $30 and had a "melt" value of $38. (You only got $30 because the smelters had so much backlog they wouldn't pay close to full melt.) And the dollars were shipped to the smelters even at that low rate because so many were coming in that they were the only way to move them OUT fast enough to cover the checks written that day.

[gold_fever-migration]

The more the merrier i say!

[CHABSENTIA]

You have the right Aesop fable. You are correct. For the most part the Credit crunch does no exist today at least in the way that it caused the present situation. People were allowed to buy homes with no money down. If one had bought a home a home and their mortgage payments were say $1700.00 a month and they bought a variable rate mortage of some sort then they might have been able to afford it. Some couldnt afford it from the beginning. Then Bernanke raises the Federal Funds rate 14 consecutive times.The variable rate mortage resets and all of a sudden the mortgage is $2600.00 a month. This was a restricition of Credit that caused a credit crunch. I will keep it on a consumer basis and wont even talk about Bank margin calls etc. Whether the people couldnt make the payment without losing their job or they lost their job there was still foreclosures etc. Then we had the people who used the equity in their homes to finance a lifestlye that they couldnt normally afford thinking that home values would only increase and after all the interest rates were lower than a credit card. A person has a 200K home and borrows 50% or a 100K. The previous selling/foreclosures drives prices down and all of a sudden that home is worht $130k and they have a 100K mortage. Big difference. Even if you paid 100K for a home but took out 25K in loans you are not going to be able to sell it for 125K so you either have to pay it down or make a "short sell".The present situation is the result of that Housing and Credit Bubble. . The Unemployment rate is actually 18% if you count people no longer looking for work if they are discouraged and had to take part time work when they lost their full time jobs. I have not folloed the savings rate. Whether it is still 4.9% or 3.3% is immaterial. My understanding is that it was 1.8%. More people have lost their jobs.It makes sense that since more people have lost their jobs and/or spent down exisiting savings that it would have decreased.None of this effects me. When I closed escrow on my home in December 1979 I had to put down a minimum of 20% and my monthy debts including my mortgage could not be more than 25% of my income. My interest rate was 10 3/4 %. .It was a fixed mortgage. I saved 10% of my check and then paid for my necessary things. If no money was left over then there was no entertainment or non essentials. I am retired now and have no debts. My home had initially decreased 25% in value. I dont care as it is paid for and we have no intention to sell. The Stock market has gained 50% form its low because some companies have increased productivity with fewer people. There will be no hiring unless they see a much rosier picture. You are looking at a jobless recovery if at all. There is no more credit crunch bubble that brought it about. If you dont have the proper credit rating and the Money to put down on a home then it makes no difference and that assumes the banks will loan the Money. My standard of living has not changed. If anything it is better because I have no House payment and my gasoline usuage is way down. So I guess I am the "ant".There is a theory in Economics called the " propensity to spend" or conversely the "propensity to save" If a person is used to spending everything they have and get a raise etc then they will spend it etc. So you are correct. Nothing much is going to change because the grasshoppers outnumber the ants and will problably continue in the same vein. This is one of the reasons this economy was 70% consumer driven. Only 14% of the 787 Billion stimulus has been spent and 98% of that 14% has been spent on Medicaid, Food Stamps, Tax Incentives and extended Unemployment which is more Wealth re-distribution than job creation which is also not a good sign and this is just the consumer side.

[CHABSENTIA]

Conder. What you say is true which will hold for a lot of people but then there are people such as myself that will not sell their silver at all. My wife is Italian and they are big hoarders of gold. It is a big deal for them. They buy gold jewelry for their first born sons etc, It is a part of life. I was scared when I left Italy a few decades ago because it is against the law to take it out but not bring it in. They sneer at the 18K and call it inferior.The first thing I did was get a safe deposit box .My wife was upset because she couldnt see it every day and was mistrustful that somebody at the bank also had a key until I convinced her. My wife would not sell her gold under any circumstances that I forsee no matter the increase. They might pawn it from time to time in Italy but will always work to get it back.