I get so sick and tired of being told "when it comes time to sell your coins"...

[physics-fan3.14]

Lou, that would start a flame war ATS. Over here, I think alot of people can see the logic and point you are making.

[IGWT]

Lou, that would start a flame war ATS. Over here, I think alot of people can see the logic and point you are making.

 

We'll see, Jason. Actually, my threads don't usually prompt much of a response regardless of the content. BTW, good luck with the job interview, and I hope that you can take "looking for a job" out of your profile soon. Charleston is a lovely place.

[TomB]

On the one hand, most collectors trust and rely on a reputable TPG's opinion when buying a coin. On the other hand, those same collectors won't risk removing a coin from its holder out of concern that it will be downgraded (or even body bagged) when resubmitted. That concern reveals a fundamental lack confidence in the TPGs' ability to grade the same coin consistently.

 

Why do collectors lack confidence after buying a coin, but not before?

I'll take your bait. The text that I put in bold is especially interesting here because it assumes only one motive for keeping a coin in a slab. There are at least four legitimate reasons that one may want to keep coins in TPG holders that I can immediately think of and these include-

 

1) The simple desire to store the coins in the TPG holder. Greater than 95% of the value of my collection is in slabs and I like it that way. Not only for the other reasons listed below, but because there is a certain uniformity (the slabs are essentially all from one TPG) that may go hand-in-hand with some collector OCD.

 

2) Liquidity upon sale. This looks back at the original rant. This liquidity comes in handy not just for getting possibly more for a coin, which can then be turned into more coins, but for obtaining a faster transaction. Let's not pretend the market does not exist; it exists and certain coins already in holders will benefit from staying in their holders and I am not writing about overgraded coins.

 

3) Insurance. My insurance policy accepts the grade determination of coins that are in TPG holders without question and my valuation of those coins is not questioned, either, but I would imagine that many folks might have to have an outside authority examine their coins if they were all raw and this would include those pieces taken out of their holders.

 

4) Protection. I like to view my coins and I like to know that I won't accidentally harm the surfaces while examining the coin. Holders are great for this.

 

Please note that I own less than 100 coins and that these coins range from less than $100 to an amount that I would be uncomfortable losing. Other collections differ and therefore may not fall within my reasons.

[IGWT]

Maybe. Still, I'd bet that many collectors would liberate coins if there were assurances that the coins would end up holdered at the same grade on resubmission.

[physics-fan3.14]

Maybe. Still, I'd bet that many collectors would liberate coins if there were assurances that the coins would end up holdered at the same grade on resubmission.

 

But why go through the hassle and pay that fee again? You're losing money. I don't see why you would crack it - to me, the enjoyment of the raw coin isn't significant enough that I would be willing to pay $30 a coin for it (keep in mind almost all of my coins, with a couple of exceptions, are under $300). I would loose the protection of the hard plastic holder as well - and I have to put the coin in something. I'm not just going to have a bag of coins jingling around in the closet.

[IGWT]

The jingling of coins can't compare with the clunking of plastic!

[Oldtrader3]

That's ok James, I have three sets that contain coins which were unintombed from their slabs to be in a capital holder set.

[WinstonWare]

4) Protection. I like to view my coins and I like to know that I won't accidentally harm the surfaces while examining the coin. Holders are great for this.

 

When I met Tom at the Bay State Coin show I dropped his Gobrecht dollar on the floor

[physics-fan3.14]

4) Protection. I like to view my coins and I like to know that I won't accidentally harm the surfaces while examining the coin. Holders are great for this.

 

When I met Tom at the Bay State Coin show I dropped his Gobrecht dollar on the floor

 

Ouch.

[TomB]

4) Protection. I like to view my coins and I like to know that I won't accidentally harm the surfaces while examining the coin. Holders are great for this.

 

When I met Tom at the Bay State Coin show I dropped his Gobrecht dollar on the floor

That's okay, I was able to smooth out the rim dings.

[IGWT]

4) Protection. I like to view my coins and I like to know that I won't accidentally harm the surfaces while examining the coin. Holders are great for this.

 

When I met Tom at the Bay State Coin show I dropped his Gobrecht dollar on the floor

That's okay, I was able to smooth out the rim dings.

 

Spoon or file?

[physics-fan3.14]

4) Protection. I like to view my coins and I like to know that I won't accidentally harm the surfaces while examining the coin. Holders are great for this.

 

When I met Tom at the Bay State Coin show I dropped his Gobrecht dollar on the floor

That's okay, I was able to smooth out the rim dings.

 

Spoon or file?

 

Just stick it in a Taco Bell napkin on the windowsill for a couple months, and no one will ever know.

[IGWT]

Just stick it in a Taco Bell napkin on the windowsill for a couple months, and no one will ever know.

 

 

 

[TomB]

(thumbs u

[MikeKing]

I know this is somewhat out of context, but the 'when it comes time to sell your coins' SUCKS

 

e.g.

 

Heritage, wanted to charge me a 3% sellers fee on a 50K consignment, when, in the past, I never paid a sellers fee. BUNK to Heritage.

 

Yet they are always sending me letters asking for my coins.

 

Does that make sense? What a xxxxxxxxiiiiiii*(**(((()))))

 

.........

 

Dealers, who say they'll buy back your coins....

 

 

some of them, not all

 

 

and don't forget, dealers lurk on both ngc and pcgs board and read all this stuff, so i'm sure i'm annyoying some of them

 

but

 

really

 

this is a 'collectors' society...

 

the message..

 

anyway....call them up to buy back and damn....suddenly your coin has lost a tremendous amount of value

 

or

 

they don't answer your emails or telephone calls

 

etc etc

 

what BUNK

 

bad for business

 

but I'm a mere peon compared to their major buyers, so what the hell do they care.

 

really sad

 

 

and it makes me damn angry

 

In my will, I have all my coins inventoried and who to call to sell, along with my purchase prices and receipts.

 

 

At one time, it was Heritage.

 

No longer.

 

 

and no longer considering a whole bunch of other dealers.

 

what a shame. I know they have to make a living and travel all over the place and examine coins with a critical eye, and i'm willing to pay for this, but the buyback thing.....damn

 

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Mike, I sincerely wish you would consider consigning to Scotsman. After some ten years of participating in their auction, and having tried several other auction houses myself, I believe you will be delighted with their service and results.

[HiHoAudio]

Mike, I sincerely wish you would consider consigning to Scotsman. After some ten years of participating in their auction, and having tried several other auction houses myself, I believe you will be delighted with their service and results.

 

Please don't tell everyone about Scotsman, as they are MY secret auction house.::

 

Seriously I have been very satisfied with them as a buyer. Beautiful coins and quick shipping. Their last auction catalog was gorgeous with great photos.

 

If I ever had to sell my collection en masse I would consider using them.

 

The real question is would I realize more using Scotsman or paying Heritage a 3% commission and possibly getting more exposure.

[James_OldeTowne]

Mike, I sincerely wish you would consider consigning to Scotsman. After some ten years of participating in their auction, and having tried several other auction houses myself, I believe you will be delighted with their service and results.

 

Please don't tell everyone about Scotsman, as they are MY secret auction house.::

 

Seriously I have been very satisfied with them as a buyer. Beautiful coins and quick shipping. Their last auction catalog was gorgeous with great photos.

 

If I ever had to sell my collection en masse I would consider using them.

 

The real question is would I realize more using Scotsman or paying Heritage a 3% commission and possibly getting more exposure.

If you consign through the right (AHEM) person, you could get 0% sellers fee and as much as 2% above hammer back. As far as exposure compared to Heritage, I would make a very serious challenge to anyone to look at what coins just sold for in the Scotsman sale this last weekend and compare to Heritage. I am dead serious, you could buy coins from Heritage, and make money on them consigning to Scotsman!!

 

Of course, I would know nothing about that strategy.....

[MarkFeld]

...The real question is would I realize more using Scotsman or paying Heritage a 3% commission and possibly getting more exposure.

The real question should be would you realize more using Scotsman or paying Heritage considerably less than the figure you noted, by consigning through a middleman who could get you a better rate.

[Tradedollarnut]

Mike, I sincerely wish you would consider consigning to Scotsman. After some ten years of participating in their auction, and having tried several other auction houses myself, I believe you will be delighted with their service and results.

 

Please don't tell everyone about Scotsman, as they are MY secret auction house.::

 

Seriously I have been very satisfied with them as a buyer. Beautiful coins and quick shipping. Their last auction catalog was gorgeous with great photos.

 

If I ever had to sell my collection en masse I would consider using them.

 

The real question is would I realize more using Scotsman or paying Heritage a 3% commission and possibly getting more exposure.

If you consign through the right (AHEM) person, you could get 0% sellers fee and as much as 2% above hammer back. As far as exposure compared to Heritage, I would make a very serious challenge to anyone to look at what coins just sold for in the Scotsman sale this last weekend and compare to Heritage. I am dead serious, you could buy coins from Heritage, and make money on them consigning to Scotsman!!

 

Of course, I would know nothing about that strategy.....

 

And yet you go out of your way to slam CAC for being self serving? /eyeroll

 

You can get more than 2% of hammer from Heritage by consigning through a national dealer. And unless your coins are low grade circs, questionable color or cleaned [like the majority of the ones I've viewed online at Scotsman], Heritage will most likely get the most for them.

[James_OldeTowne]

And yet you go out of your way to slam CAC for being self serving?

How do you define "go out of your way to slam" something? I challenge you to find a single CAC-slamming thread that I have ever started, and then compare that to the number of CAC-loving threads that others have started, and see if the result supports your allegation.

 

By the way, what caused you to go out of your way to "eyeroll" me, anyhow??

[Tradedollarnut]

By the way, what caused you to go out of your way to "eyeroll" me, anyhow??

 

Probably the very suspicious looking net graded questionable color coin with the glowing description that I looked at in your last auction.

 

Ok, perhaps in all fairness I should change it to 'never missing a chance while not changing your path too much along the way'.

[MarkFeld]

And yet you go out of your way to slam CAC for being self serving?

How do you define "go out of your way to slam" something? I challenge you to find a single CAC-slamming thread that I have ever started, and then compare that to the number of CAC-loving threads that others have started, and see if the result supports your allegation.

 

By the way, what caused you to go out of your way to "eyeroll" me, anyhow??

James, where did Bruce say that you started "CAC slamming threads"? You've certainly slammed CAC just fine, without starting any threads on the subject. And please show us all of the "CAC loving threads" that others have started? Why not try to make your point without exaggerating?

[James_OldeTowne]

Probably the very suspicious looking net graded questionable color coin with the glowing description that I looked at in your last auction.

 

Ok, perhaps in all fairness I should change it to 'never missing a chance while not changing your path too much along the way'.

Since fairness is suddenly so important, I have an idea. Why don't YOU catalog 2000 coins and pieces of currency, do that for eight separate auctions, and then let others criticize your descriptions? If you have integrity, please have the integrity to simply tell me which lot's description you disagree with, and I guarantee I will discuss it with the auction house. It's the least I could do.

 

I do my best, and do so without ever claiming to be a "top 5 grader", or a "top 5 cataloger", or a "top 5 anything". And if anyone ever were to foolishly suggest that I am a "top 5 anything", I WOULD "go out of my way" to suggest to him that I am neither. I'm probably at best a competent grader, and maybe a competent cataloger, and nothing more.

 

(By the way, there were EIGHT lots for which I took criticism, and several of them were due to my own error. We discussed all eight errors prior to the auction. Ask anyone present whether what I am saying is true.)

 

James, where did Bruce say that you started "CAC slamming threads"? You've certainly slammed CAC just fine, without starting any threads on the subject.

TDN said I "go out of my way" to slam CAC. It seems pretty obvious to me that someone obsessed with slamming CAC would start such negative threads from time to time, wouldn't they? Even assuming that is untrue, I would bet ten bucks right now that TDN's "CAC-positive" posts in CAC threads outnumbers my "CAC-negative" posts by a significant margin. Therefore, it stands to reason that TDN will "go out of his way" to promote them, doesn't it? And would not the same argument apply to you?

 

Basically, I take issue with the statement that I somehow "go out of my way" to slam CAC. That is a laugher, and the fact that he'd make such a statement says more about him than it does about me. Yet, I still have MUCH respect for TDN as a collector, and yourself as a dealer.

 

And please show us all of the "CAC loving threads" that others have started?

Mark, I am not kidding, it will take you 30 seconds to find them yourself. Simply go ATS and type "CAC" in the little search bar. I found at least five within the first two pages.

 

Why not try to make your point without exaggerating?

Oh, do you mean like accusing someone of "going out of your way" to slam something ?

[Tradedollarnut]

It seems pretty obvious to me that someone obsessed with slamming CAC would start such negative threads from time to time, wouldn't they?

 

Who said anything about obsession?

 

Rather than argue over semantics, I will concede that you merely take every opportunity rather than go out of your way.

[MarkFeld]

Mark, I am not kidding, it will take you 30 seconds to find them yourself. Simply go ATS and type "CAC" in the little search bar. I found at least five within the first two pages....

Well, James, it looks as if you were kidding. Or, if not, you sure have a strange sense of what it means to "start a CAC love thread".

 

Maybe to you, anything said or asked about CAC amounts to a "love thread"? Based on the results of the search you suggested, it sure appears as if you exaggerated badly in your "CAC love thread" remark, .

 

These are the first 5 CAC thread titles that showed up in a search:

 

1) Why doesn't CAC accept private submissions?

2) fake cac sticker on fake pcgs slab

3) If CAC stickers an NGC star designated coin.....

4) Does CAC have more than one green bean label it is using?

5) Can a coin be re-submitted to CAC

[James_OldeTowne]

It seems pretty obvious to me that someone obsessed with slamming CAC would start such negative threads from time to time, wouldn't they?

 

Who said anything about obsession?

 

Rather than argue over semantics, I will concede that you merely take every opportunity rather than go out of your way.

EVERY opportunity?? OK, now seriously, WHO is exaggerating? One could just as well say that you take every opportunity to support CAC to a much greater extent than I do to (allegedly) "slam CAC". And again, I would bet ten dollars right now that if we count up how many posts you have made to CAC threads, and compare that to how many posts I have made, we would find that you have made substantially more posts regarding CAC than I have.

 

You want to take me up on that bet ?

 

Mark, I am not kidding, it will take you 30 seconds to find them yourself. Simply go ATS and type "CAC" in the little search bar. I found at least five within the first two pages....

Well, James, it looks as if you were kidding. Or, if not, you sure have a strange sense of what it means to "start a CAC love thread".

 

Maybe to you, anything said or asked about CAC amounts to a "love thread"? Based on the results of the search you suggested, it sure appears as if you exaggerated badly in your "CAC love thread" remark, .

 

These are the first 5 CAC thread titles that showed up in a search:

 

1) Why doesn't CAC accept private submissions?

2) fake cac sticker on fake pcgs slab

3) If CAC stickers an NGC star designated coin.....

4) Does CAC have more than one green bean label it is using?

5) Can a coin be re-submitted to CAC

 

Mark, I'm pretty sure you did not read, or simply misread, what I posted. I said that it took me about 30 seconds to find five CAC-positive threads within the first two pages of a quick search for "CAC" ATS. Must I prove this as well?

 

Edited to add: TDN, what was that "very suspicious looking net graded questionable color coin" in the Scotsman catalog that you were talking about?!

[MarkFeld]

 

Mark, I am not kidding, it will take you 30 seconds to find them yourself. Simply go ATS and type "CAC" in the little search bar. I found at least five within the first two pages....

Well, James, it looks as if you were kidding. Or, if not, you sure have a strange sense of what it means to "start a CAC love thread".

 

Maybe to you, anything said or asked about CAC amounts to a "love thread"? Based on the results of the search you suggested, it sure appears as if you exaggerated badly in your "CAC love thread" remark, .

 

These are the first 5 CAC thread titles that showed up in a search:

 

1) Why doesn't CAC accept private submissions?

2) fake cac sticker on fake pcgs slab

3) If CAC stickers an NGC star designated coin.....

4) Does CAC have more than one green bean label it is using?

5) Can a coin be re-submitted to CAC

 

Mark, I'm pretty sure you did not read, or simply misread, what I posted. I said that it took me about 30 seconds to find five CAC-positive threads within the first two pages of a quick search for "CAC" ATS. Must I prove this as well?..

 

James, I read what you posted. Did YOU?

 

Initially, you made reference to "CAC love threads". When I challenged you on that, you suggested that "Mark, I am not kidding, it will take you 30 seconds to find them yourself. Simply go ATS and type "CAC" in the little search bar"

 

I searched and then posted the first 5 thread titles I saw. And I indicated that, you had exaggerated badly about "CAC love threads". Now, you have changed your wording to "CAC positive threads". Next, perhaps you will change it to "CAC neutral threads", but even if not, you exaggerated, were called on it and then changed your language. I guess I should praise you for being flexible.

[James_OldeTowne]

 

Mark, I am not kidding, it will take you 30 seconds to find them yourself. Simply go ATS and type "CAC" in the little search bar. I found at least five within the first two pages....

Well, James, it looks as if you were kidding. Or, if not, you sure have a strange sense of what it means to "start a CAC love thread".

 

Maybe to you, anything said or asked about CAC amounts to a "love thread"? Based on the results of the search you suggested, it sure appears as if you exaggerated badly in your "CAC love thread" remark, .

 

These are the first 5 CAC thread titles that showed up in a search:

 

1) Why doesn't CAC accept private submissions?

2) fake cac sticker on fake pcgs slab

3) If CAC stickers an NGC star designated coin.....

4) Does CAC have more than one green bean label it is using?

5) Can a coin be re-submitted to CAC

 

Mark, I'm pretty sure you did not read, or simply misread, what I posted. I said that it took me about 30 seconds to find five CAC-positive threads within the first two pages of a quick search for "CAC" ATS. Must I prove this as well?..

 

James, I read what you posted. Did YOU?

 

Initially, you made reference to "CAC love threads". When I challenged you on that, you suggested that "Mark, I am not kidding, it will take you 30 seconds to find them yourself. Simply go ATS and type "CAC" in the little search bar"

 

I searched and then posted the first 5 thread titles I saw. And I indicated that, you had exaggerated badly about "CAC love threads". Now, you have changed your wording to "CAC positive threads". Next, perhaps you will change it to "CAC neutral threads", but even if not, you exaggerated, were called on it and then changed your language. I guess I should praise you for being flexible.

Mark, sorry to be insistent, but you have twice now NOT read what I posted. To rephrase again, my fourth post on this page stated that you would find at least five "CAC loving" (as opposed to "CAC slamming") threads within the first two pages ATS if you do a simple search of "CAC". Nowhere did I state that they would be the first five posts found!

 

Since you either won't read what I wrote, or simply don't want to take the thirty seconds to repeat my little exercise, I guess the argument is moot, and would be even if I did post MY results, as I'm sure your next argument would be "well, those aren't CAC-loving threads", but then we'd get into the area of semantics (again) and subjectivity (again) about what constitutes "loving", and we'll do that without ever addressed the original semantics of establishing what constitutes "slamming" and "going out of your way" (again), etc. etc. which prompted this whole new argument, which will get us nowhere because the person who started this whole argument refuses to define how he uses those terms and THEIR semantics (again), blah blah blah, and then this will just dissolve into a back-and-forth about what this person's semantics mean vs. that person's semantics, WHEW! no wonder so many threads that mention "CAC" wander on forever!, and finally the whole argument will never be resolved (again) because instead of addressing the original question of why TDN thinks I go out of my way to slam something will slowly drift off the main page of the thread to begin with, and then quotes of quotes within quotes will make no sense, but we STILL won't know what is meant by "CAC-slamming" and "CAC-loving", and not only that, "go out of your way" will still not be defined . . . . .

 

We all know the drill.

[Tradedollarnut]

Out of deference to our hosts, I'll just keep that coin's identity under my hat.

 

Meanwhile, back at the ranch....