Toned coins!!!

[Joe S.-migration]

I have my eyes on three complete uncirculated sets (53, 54, 55) still in the original government packaging and toned to the hilt (all coins). The dealer is asking right at red book price. Not having any experience with purchasing anything AND having it graded, I need some advice. I would love to purchase these sets and have all the coins graded, if I do this, will I be able to recoup my costs (for the sets, grading and mailing fees) plus? Each and every coin is in beautiful shape (pf condition for each one) and their bluing is definitely an addition to their beauty (and cost) but I don't know if it is worth the cost (not concerned about the effort). I plan on adding the franklins to my collection but none of the others (as of right now).

 

I know it is hard to give advice on "site unseen" coins.

 

What do you think?

[physics-fan3.14]

What do you mean by pf condition for each one? Are they uncirculated or proof - they can't be both. Chances are very good that no, if you buy this with the intent of cracking and submitting everything you will lose large amounts of money. The dealer most likely knows this - if there was anything worth submitting, he would have submitted it.

 

We really cannot comment on the toning without seeing it, except to say that 1955 sets usually tone darkly and not that attractive. Early 50's sets are usually speckled in browns and greys, if you have attractive rainbow toning then it might be something special. Also make sure you check for FBL's, especially on the P and S mints (I can almost guarantee you won't get any S mint FBLs, but always check).

 

I don't know what redbook price is relative to a realistic price, but redbook is rarely accurate. That could work to your advantae or disadvantage.

[PCcoins]

It all depends on how nice the toning is, and the quality of the coins. Depending on this, even buying at retail, you can still make a nice profit.

[Joe S.-migration]

Any dealers have a suggested asking price for these (other than what he is asking)? What is the grey sheet price for these?

The dealer that is selling these sets is more of an antique dealer than a coin dealer, but he does know coins. I don't think he has 20 graded coins in his shop with more that a 1,000 coins in his cases.

I very much doubt he has ever submitted a coin for grading or has ever pulled anything out of a set for separate sales. He is just not that way.

 

 

Thanks,

Joe S.

[TomB]

You write that they are uncirculated (MS) and then write that they are proof, so, which is it? If they are MS then they must be double sets of coins in cardboard holders with paper covers and within an envelope. That is, each denomination from each mint and each year must be represented twice. If they are proof coins then the 1953 and 1954 will be in small cardboard boxes and each coin wrapped in individual pieces of cellophane that are stapled to one another while the 1955 set may be packaged that way or may be packaged in a flat, pliofilm pack. Combined Greysheet bid on these as mint sets is $768 while as proof sets it is $359 in boxes and $402 is the 1955 is in pliofilm.

 

Given your post, I would imagine you will lose money on this deal.

[Joe S.-migration]

I am sorry for the mix up...they are all mint sets. The "pf" was a mistake.

 

And...what did you mean "Given your post, I would imagine you will lose money on this deal."?

[michael]

 

 

not seeing them in hand it would only be a wild guess

 

but be that as it may.........................................

 

 

what tomb said (thumbs u

[TomB]

My last comment was based upon an informal evaluation of the contents of your thread with respect to the experience I have in the toned coin market.

 

You wrote uncirculated coins in one case and proof coins in another, which is truly a trivial error and similar things happen to all of us from time-to-time. However, I did not know if this trivial error was evidence that you might or might not know what an original mint or proof set should look like and this played a part in my response. Also, your reference to Red Book pricing was a signal to me that you might be relying on price guides that can be a bit steep on some items. My older copy of the Red Book puts the combined price of htese at $1,100 while the Greysheet has them at $768 and this means the Red Book price represents approximately a 50% surcharge to the Greysheet price. Additionally, these sets that you mention typically do not come with really nicely toned coins in them. Certainly, they come with deeply toned coins, but this is different from really nicely toned and the difference can spell big money. The 1953 and 1954 sets can come with some individually nice coins while the 1955 sets are generally dull, but of course this is not always the case. Lastly, you mentioned that you planned on certifying all these coins. I have never seen an original mint set where all the coins were deserving of the expense of certification, so finding three older sets would be quite a task. The cost to certify these three sets, if it costs about $15 per coin, would be $15x82 coins for a total fee of $1,230 plus shipping, handling and insurance. This puts your expense at $2,330 or more for three sets that bid at $768.

 

Given the above, I doubt highly that you would make money on the deal.

[jonthecoinjunky]

I personally love the early government mint sets. The truely original set always seem to cary a premium. Since they are sight unseen, it is a difficult decision. If the money is not an issue, I'd say pick one of the sets up and ask him to hold the other two. Or ask if he has a return policy before buying them.

 

From what I have seen these sets often hold enough of a premium sometime even over certified coins. If you purchase them, Id recomend leaving them as a set rather than paying $15 a coin to get them slabbed.

[kryptonitecomics]

It all depends on how nice the toning is, and the quality of the coins. Depending on this, even buying at retail, you can still make a nice profit.

 

[BillJones]

In the case of modern mint sets, those who make out by getting the coins slabbed cherry pick the really great stuff and sell off the rest. Sometimes they put substitute coins in the sets, and sell them as “original mint sets.” That’s not necessarily dishonest if the toning on the coins matches up well.

 

These toned coins might look great to you, but I’ll bet that no more that one or two coins at most in each set would be worth considering for a slab. The chances of every coin being slab worthy are very, very remote. And some original coins in mint sets have gone too far and are given the “environmentally damaged” body bag.

 

[leeg]

There is some value if they are high grade with nice lustre, color, and garner FBL, FT, or FS designations.

 

 

[World Colonial]

As others have pointed out, you will have a difficult time making this worthwhile economically. It will depend upon what the coins look like and what grade they come back with but the challenge you are going to have is that these coins are simply too common.

 

Using the prices and grading fees in Tom's post, I do not see how there is any realistic chance of selling them for about the $2500 which would be necesary to even break even. That is one heck of a lot of money for material that is as readily available as these coins are though someone might have to work at it a little to find a nicely matched set in a better grade.

 

Checking the Heritage archives, there are a few recent sales under US mint sets. A 1953 NGC set graded MS-64 to MS-67 sold for $207 in 1/09. A 1953-D NGC set graded MS-64 to MS-66 sold for $230. The 1954 and 1954-D sets in about the same grades sold for $80 and $51.

 

I cannot tell you if this is representative of the value fo these sets but I will always give preference to real sale prices over any price guide.

[brwnprkns]

I cherry picked one set from my "original" 1957 Mint Set, only two were worth slabbing the rest had nice toning, but came back 65's and 66's which really aren't worth the slab

 

 

 

 

 

[PCcoins]

That's a beautiful '57-d brwnprkns!!!

 

 

Here's two from the same mint set I got graded.

 

 

[brwnprkns]

AWESOME!

Love the Color