Help with a 1817 Large cent please

[dooly]

Hi all .. i am interested in adding this to my dansco and i was wondering what all the extra metal around the date is ? Cud ? as there is a belting die crack going on..

and how much should i pay

 

cheers

 

[MunkyMan95]

LDS die crack?

[dooly]

LDS die crack?

 

sorry MM whats LDS? i know what LSD is

[rrantique]

Late Die State. (thumbs u

[Treeman]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why would you want to add THIS coin? It would be easy to find a nicer example of the 13 star coin for little money. Anyway, if you really want this one, I'd say pay about $5.

[physics-fan3.14]

Yeah, I don't know much about these, but it doesn't seem like it should be that hard to find a nicer one. The verdigris is a real problem for me.

 

The bit through the date appears to be a pretty severe die crack, indicating a Late Die State like the monkey suggests.

 

[BillJones]

Despite the low grade of the coin (please forgive me for being honest), this piece can be given a Nucomb number. It is an N-12, and it's actually an intermediate, not a late die state. In a more terminal state the crack that is going through the stars on the left side becomes a cud (the rim of the dies falls off completely leaving a raised area), and the edges of stars are no longer struck up so that they can be seen.

 

John Wright, who wrote The Cent Book , calls this variety an R-3, "scarce but not rare."

[michael]

a big die break

[michael]

cuds are only at/touching the rims

[dooly]

Despite the low grade of the coin (please forgive me for being honest), this piece can be given a Nucomb number. It is an N-12, and it's actually an intermediate, not a late die state. In a more terminal state the crack that is going through the stars on the left side becomes a cud (the rim of the dies falls off completely leaving a raised area), and the edges of stars are no longer struck up so that they can be seen.

 

John Wright, who wrote The Cent Book , calls this variety an R-3, "scarce but not rare."

 

Hi all .. just like it .. with all the "suff" going on thats all .. nice honest coin.

 

Cheers billjones great information (thumbs u just makes it more and more interesting ..

[jesbroken]

I agree with you, Dooly, the coin is definitely interesting. If the price is reasonable, keep it and upgrade some day if you feel the need.

Jim

[michael]

try to buy an 1815 large cent newcomb-00aa

 

a great coin to add to your collection

 

usually at larger shows you can find one or two for sale

 

cost about 8-25 dollars or so depending on the grade and how well the date was done

[Conder101]

The N-12 isn't a rare variety but it IS a popular one and so tends to sell for more than a run of the mill R-3 coin does.

 

Michael, if you can get an "1815" for 8 to 25 dollars you are doing pretty good unless it is just a horribly done amateur job. And it you can find one that used a Classic head for the host coin you are really doing well. There have been a couple dozen of them sold at EAC sales and from EACer collections in the past couple years and most of them have been selling for anywhere from $85 for a so so one up into the hundreds for well done ones. One of the nicest I've seen was at a show in OH a little over a year ago done from a choice XF 1813 Classic. The color was dark but the surfaces were smooth and non porous and the workmanship on the alteration was first rate. It was $1,000. And if I had the money to spare I've have paid it.

[michael]

superb

 

 

and yes the ones i see are usually poor amatuer jobs

 

 

[michael]

i would have loved to own the choice xf 1813 alteration to an 1815

 

and it seems to me that if the mint made an 1815 it would have been the first matron head

[Conder101]

I don't know. I'm not sure why it wouldn't have been the last of the Classic Heads. The reason they didn't make 1815's was because they didn't have planchets because of the war of 1812 with England. If the war had not happened, or if it had ended earlier so they would have had planchets, and they probably would have struck cents earlier in the year than they did. That would mean they would have needed cent dies early in the year, but Scot did not engrave the Matron head until late in the year. So it would seem to me that it would be more likely the 1815 cents would have been Classics. (Of course if they knew they were going to have planchets, Scot might have engraved the Matron earlier.)

[michael]

i feel beacuse no one wanted the 1814 classic heads so the mint paid their employees with them for their wages this is why 1814 classic heads are usually available in xf and above

 

the employees had problems even using them as payment for many purchases especially so if they wanted to use over 50 cents worth for one purchase

 

i think.......................................

 

and i could be wrong i usually am!

 

but i think if they struck 1815 coins scot would have engraved the matron earlier and struck 1815 with the sexy matron head

[Conder101]

For most of 1814 the mint did not strike any cents. The mint employees were paid with the 1814 cents because for almost a year Congress never approved payment warrants (drafts against the Treasury payable by the Bank of the United States) so the employees could be paid. So in order to finally pay the workers they stuck up the last of the copper planchets into cents and used them to pay the workers since they didn't have to get a pay warrant that way. They could not have paid them with larger denominations because the mint had no bullion fund and was dependent upon depositors for gold and silver so those metals on hand did not belong to the government and so couldnot be struck and used to pay the workers.

 

Still though the story about the cents being used to pay the workers may just be a myth. In November 1813 the Sec Treas ordered the mint not to pay out any more cents and none were paid out until Dec 26th when supposedly the entire mintage for 1814 (struck around Sept) was turned over to the Bank of Pensylvannia. If they were paid out tot eh Bank they weren't used to pay the wokers. (But the lack of payment warrants for almost a year is true as well.)

[MikeInFL]

i feel beacuse no one wanted the 1814 classic heads so the mint paid their employees with them for their wages this is why 1814 classic heads are usually available in xf and above

 

A very little known fact. Thanks for sharing...Mike

[michael]

thanks

 

well usually the most available of the classic heads

 

and from what i see in the market they are always available for a price

[dooly]

Hi all .. the coin went for $14.50

[michael]

sweet

 

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