Is there a market for pre-1936 proof sets?

[Boba]

Regarding the set of 1901 proofs below. I contemplated cracking open these mis-matched older slabs and putting them into a nice new Capital Plastics (black) 6 hole display case. This proof set would look nicer in a fresh holder. However, I'm also contemplating selling them, and wonder if it would be smarter to sell the coins individually in slabs then as a set.

 

Is there a market for pre-1936 proof sets?

 

 

[Dcoin]

That is actually a nice looking set and there is certainly a market for it, however...

 

ACG is a very unreliable grading service. In fact grading service is more of an aspiration than a mission statement. I think your first step is in identifying whether your coins will grade at a top tier service. If so, then you certainly will have buyers. If not then at least you have the information you need to make a decision.

 

NGC has the multi-holder grading, which I think will give your set a real wow factor.

 

As to your particular coins, I will leave to the experts on the forum to judge.

 

[Dwaine]

It appears to be a nice set but it is really hard to get a good idea if they will all cross to PCGS or NGC. I would be concerned about the 3 ACG coins. If you had a dealer in your area that submits to either service I would take the coins to them to see what they think if they will cross to either service.

 

As for selling I would think you would want to try to get them in either PCGS or NGC slabs.

[James_OldeTowne]

Be very careful with those ACG "proofs". ACG slabbed quite a few business strike coins that were doctored to look like proofs.

[physics-fan3.14]

There is most certainly a desire for early proof sets, although it might be easier to sell them individually to specialists.

 

ACG not only has no acceptance, they have negative acceptance. By that I mean - a nice coin in one of their holders will be very hard to sell, because people are so reliant on the slab and not the coin. You would probably be better off cracking the ACG and selling them raw.

[MarkFeld]

In this particular case, I would definitely recommend trying to sell the items individually, rather than as a set. You have different holders, different grades and coins that don't match. Many individuals might be interested in one or more individual coins, but few would want all of them. And that would severely diminish your ability to get a decent price for the set if offered as a whole.

[Boba]

Thanks all! Lot's to ponder.

[BillJones]

There is a HUGE market for ORIGINAL nicely matched pre 1936 Proof sets. These coins bring far more than the Gray Sheet or even Coin Prices listings because of the historical significance of these sets. Furthermore, more and more of them get broken up every year so that the high grade coins can be sold for premium prices.

 

Assembled sets, such as this are not such a big deal. The coins are really only worth their individual values and don’t bring a premium as an “assembled set.”

 

To put it in context, I once owned a 1909 original set which had only the Indian cent, and not the two Lincoln cents. I sold it when I was saving for the down payment on my first house. I got way over Gray Sheet for the set in a down market.

 

If you would like to put these set in Capital Plastic holder as a collector, go ahead. It will be fun to see. But I agree with James. Watch out for the ACG stuff. Those coins might not be Proofs, and they many have been messed with.

 

[ant]

i think a nice capital holder or something would do this set just fine. it is a nice set.

 

the morgan has me wondering if it is indeed a proof. might we get a closer picture of the acg stuff please.the barber 25c looks good but the other 2 dont strike me as proofs but im still learning and is reason for picture request

 

thanks

[WoodenJefferson]

Requesting a closer image of the Barber half dollar, I do not see any details, I'm puzzled...you also don't see many PR-58's either. Anything below PR-60 is considered “impaired” due to handling or maybe even slight circulation. The rest of the proof coins appear to be OK but that one grading service liked to designate “cameo” even if only one side is cameo’d, so the reverse of the quarter is also requested.

 

If you can do this, thanks in advance.

[MarkFeld]

Requesting a closer image of the Barber half dollar, I do not see any details, I'm puzzled...you also don't see many PR-58's either. Anything below PR-60 is considered “impaired” due to handling or maybe even slight circulation. The rest of the proof coins appear to be OK but that one grading service liked to designate “cameo” even if only one side is cameo’d, so the reverse of the quarter is also requested.

 

If you can do this, thanks in advance.

My guess is that the details on the Barber half are being masked by heavy patina or possibly something that was added to the surfaces. I mention the latter because I question the coin's originality. Also, I wouldn't automativally assume that the cameo effect on the Barber quarter is natural. I'm just being cautious here.

[Elbesaar]

 

I also have given some thought of having

my two early proof sets, 1889 & 1898,

placed in Multi-Holders.

 

My coins are all in PCGS holders.

 

I understand that PCGS will also place coins

in a Multi-Holder. I also fully understand that

this limits the number of collectors who'd be

interested in purchasing an entire set at once.

 

An astute buyer could see the value contained

within such a set, IMHO. However, based on

Mark Feld's statement, I am now somewhat hesitant.

 

 

 

 

[Boba]

I appreciated all the insights here. All of the coins, including the barber half and the morgan dollar as well, exhibit mirror surfaces in the fields behind the devices. The half does have a rather gray overall patina, which makes it hard pick out details in the the photo. To tell the truth, I have wished the Morgan was a business strike - they are rarer in high grades and probably more valuable than the proof.

 

HOW DOES ONE DETERMINE THIS IS A PROOF AND NOT A BUSINESS STRIKE? Is there a distinguishing detail that identifies a proof, besides the mirror surfaces?

 

[Boba]

I tried my scanner for a better shot - the results are below.

Alternately, I tried using my camera for the shots that follow, with considerably better results. Tonight I will re-photograph the set this way.

 

[Boba]

1901 Morgan Dollar - the holder's old and scratched up.

It's hard to tell what's on the coin and what's on the holder.

 

 

[Boba]

1901 Barber Half - It may be gray-toned but the details are sharp as a razor.

 

The balance to be added later tonight...

 

[MarkFeld]

Based on the new images.....

I'm not convinced that the Dollar is a Proof. And if it's a circulated business strike, it's worth less than a Proof, not more, even considering the date. The Quarter looks better than in the first image, but I believe that the Half Dollar would grade less than 63 (and very possibly no-grade) at a respected grading company.

[BillJones]

I agree with Mark about the 1901 Morgan Dollar. It might have P-L surfaces, but it does not have the sharpenss that one would expect from a Proof. I think that it is a circualted business strike.

 

I know this is an earlier date, and there are some differences, but compare this 1883 NGC PR-64 with your 1901. You will note that your coin lacks the sharpness and the detail of a true Proof.

 

 

As to the other coins, I think the Barber half dollar is an imparied Proof and the quarter is a decent Proof that would grade in the 62 or 63 range.

[physics-fan3.14]

I was going to say the exact same thing as Bill and Mark. So I'll just let them say it.

 

In case you missed Bill's last line, hidden under the photo, I think the half dollar is an impaired Proof. If you wanted to submit, I would send to NCS.

[Boba]

Thanks all, I appreciate the input, even if it's not what I wanted to hear. I always wondered about the dollar - how the heck can a grading service identify a circulated business strike as a proof, is beyond me.

[Boba]

I agree with Mark about the 1901 Morgan Dollar. It might have P-L surfaces, but it does not have the sharpenss that one would expect from a Proof. I think that it is a circualted business strike.

 

I know this is an earlier date, and there are some differences, but compare this 1883 NGC PR-64 with your 1901. You will note that your coin lacks the sharpness and the detail of a true Proof.

 

 

As to the other coins, I think the Barber half dollar is an imparied Proof and the quarter is a decent Proof that would grade in the 62 or 63 range.

 

That IS one sweet dollar!

[BillJones]

Thanks all, I appreciate the input, even if it's not what I wanted to hear. I always wondered about the dollar - how the heck can a grading service identify a circulated business strike as a proof, is beyond me.

 

The answer to that has two answers. First, they did not have the knowledge to provide reliable grading and authentication. Second they were in business to supply slabs to individuals who had less than honorable intentions.

 

For what it's worth I think they mis attributed your coin as Proof because they didn't know any better.

 

That IS one sweet dollar.

 

Thank you very much. (thumbs u Believe it or not the coin looks better in person. I'd been looking for a Proof Morgan for a while, and I knew when I saw this one that it would fit the bill. Sometimes you hesitate about a coin, but I didn't on this one.

[Boba]

Even though this dashes my hopes of putting them into a capital holder and creating a complete proof set, I do think the dime, nickel and penny are pretty nice, and the quarter maybe worth re-slabbing, I don't know. I may just part out the set and let the chits call where they will.

[WoodenJefferson]

Thanks all, I appreciate the input, even if it's not what I wanted to hear. I always wondered about the dollar - how the heck can a grading service identify a circulated business strike as a proof, is beyond me.

 

Because, they had one of these!

 

 

All kidding aside, thanks for taking the time to re-image those that were in question, you have some expert advice flowing fourth on these coins...if you don't know, one of the responders is an ex-grader of our host.

[Boba]

I do indeed appreciate it, this is why I posted them here. The dime and nickel were graded by reliable companies and the penny is raw. I'm a little uncertain what to do with the dollar - the half, while impaired, is still a proof. What do you do with a dollar slabbed as a proof, but likely is not?

[BillJones]

What do you do with a dollar slabbed as a proof, but likely is not?

 

Sadly when a coin is in an ACG holder, most people treat it as a raw coin. The fact that they called it a Proof really does not mean very much.

[michael]

based only on the photos; only rhe photos

 

the 1901 morgan does NOT IN NO WAY look like a proof in my minds eye

[Boba]

I think we have a consensus on that now...

 

BTW, I have a 1937 proof set I am looking to upgrade the lincoln penny to a PF 66 - if anyone has one that they want to part with let me know.

[James_OldeTowne]

Based on the new images.....

I'm not convinced that the Dollar is a Proof. And if it's a circulated business strike, it's worth less than a Proof, not more, even considering the date. The Quarter looks better than in the first image, but I believe that the Half Dollar would grade less than 63 (and very possibly no-grade) at a respected grading company.

 

I agree with Mark and others, which is exactly what I feared. That's why I cautioned earlier on buying so-called "proof" type coins in ACG holders.

 

Quick story: long ago (15 years or so) when just starting out, I bought what was purported to be a very high-grade proof seated half-dollar in an ACG slab. I tried for months to sell that darned thing for a big profit, then a small profit, then break-even, and then even for a loss! Nobody would touch it. To make a long story short, it turned out to be a polished and then artificially frosted business-strike that wasn't even UNC. I took a big hit, though at the time, that was only about $300. But to me, that was huge - I had originally hoped to double my money!

 

By the way, I cracked that miserable coin out so nobody else would get duped by it. In retrospect, it wasn't even a very convincing job.

[michael]