1793 AMERI Chain Cent just crossed

[EZ_E]

I bought it from Stacks in a third world slab for $1800 in March of this year.

 

It just graded at PCGS as P01.

 

Question?

 

What is this coin's market value in the PCGS slab?

 

[Schatzy]

 

Question?

 

What is this coin's market value in the PCGS slab?

 

 

PCGS Price Guide $2500.......If am looking it up right!!

[BillJones]

What is this coin's market value in the PCGS slab?

 

Under normal circumstances I would say that the cross-over would make no difference in this grade. The kicker is the "worst known" competition that PCGS now has. This coin is obviously the "MS-70" of worst known coins for a type set. There can be none graded lower.

 

As to what it’s worth, I’d say no more than $1,000.00, but I’m probably nuts. :insane:The prices for early coins really astound me these days. The rule of thumb used to be for Poor graded coins was half of the Fair grade price. If you use the Sheldon basal value concept, the number according to “Coin Values” magazine would be $2,500. They price the Chain Ameri. at $7,500 in AG-3. Therefore $7,500/3 = $2,500.

 

[EZ_E]

I sure wish that I collected early types in a different era. They certainly are not cheap, even in such low grades.

 

So, $2500 is the consensus. Thanks. But, I'd bet that it could bring $3000 in the right venue.

[danno26]

Stack's had 2 chains in their Baltimore sale, lots 3047-3048. Both were graded Poor. Both had problems. 3047 looked similar to yours, but with an area of heavy porosity on the rev and no certification. It realized $1150.

[BillJones]

I don't think I said that $2,500 was a "consensus." I said that it was one way to look at it if the Sheldon grading – pricing theory had any validity. It certainly doesn’t work for the higher grades.

 

If you go back less than 15 years ago, I saw Chain cents with Fine sharpness, but cleaned being tough sells at $2,300. How times have changed! I’m not sure that you could get $2,500 for that piece in PR-1. I know I won’t pay that, but I’ve got a “grade range” that generally runs from the finest known VG to the world to low end Mint State for coins from this era. Anything below that really does not interest me, and anything above that is out of my ability to pay range. Other collectors undoubtedly have different standards.

 

[Conder101]

Stack's had 2 chains in their Baltimore sale, lots 3047-3048. Both were graded Poor.

They had 4 chains in the sale 3045 - 3048.

 

3047 looked similar to yours, but with an area of heavy porosity on the rev and no certification. It realized $1150.

But that was a S-4, not n S-1 like EZ_E has. An S-1 will bring more. Sometimes stupid money. Lot 3045 in that sale was also an S-1 chain cent.

 

This coin is low grade, abused, beaten around the edge, and has a deep groove cut into the edge all the way around. It hammered down at $1100, and then five hours later suddenly jumped to $2,300. (I was severely annoyed, I had the $1100 bid. No I have no idea what happened. Undisclosed reserve?)

[BillJones]

WOW, Condor!

 

It's amazing what people are willing to pay for really pathetic Chain Cents these days. If you had brought that piece into Stacks’ during the 1980s, they would have darn near thrown you out of the place for showing it to them. In those days Stacks’ did not have much patience with low grade coins and small collectors.

 

I know. The guys at Stacks' always viewed me as a member of the hoi polloi.

 

[RI AL]

I'm liking my PCGS F-2 chain cent better and better! I wonder how many are even known to still exist. I guess demand, in any grade, far exceeds supply.

 

Regarding Stack's, I have only been there once, back in the late 1960's with my older brother who had moved to Brooklyn. I fondly remember the patience of the salesman as I struggled for about an hour, trying to decide which FE cent I liked best. I still have that sucker. What really impressed me is that when I told the sales guy what I was looking for (no slabs back then), he pulled out a drawer that must have had 200 FE cents lying loose. Now THOSE were the days when collecting was "collecting" for fun and hadn't even begun thinking of turning into the massive industry it is today. I miss those days...

[BillJones]

When I was in high school in the 1960s I did buy a couple gold coins from Stacks' over the counter. One was a 1910-D eagle and the other was 1901 eagle. I still have the 1901 eagle, and it's now in an NGC MS-65 holder.

 

They were good to me back then, but things changed in the 1970s. If they figured that you were not a big collector, they did not want to spend much time with you. Since I generally could buy only two or three coins a year that cost from $1,000 to $2,500, I just not worth their time.

 

The last time I was in their store, they seemed more receptive. By then I had a belly and my hair was getting gray and thinning out. I guess I had started to look like a "client" who had some money to spend.

[Conder101]

I wonder how many are even known to still exist. I guess demand, in any grade, far exceeds supply.

Each of the four varieties of chain cent are considered to be roughly equal in rarity and are rated R-4- or about 200 for each. This is still almost certainly to high a rating. that would be roughly 800 specimens total and most copper specialists estimate there are probably closer to 1500 total pieces around, mostly low grade and problem coins.

 

The problem is the high demand from type collectors, and the copper specialists that want all four varieties. There just REALLY aren't enough to go around.

[RI AL]

Good ole' Conder...he really knows his stuff! I'm impressed, and thanks for the information. Everyone, have a great Thanksgiving. We meet the soon to be "in laws" tomorrow. Hope we like them...and vice versa..

 

RI AL

[michael]

a great problem free lower graded coin victor!!

 

also where on the boards is your bust large eagle dollar??

[EZ_E]

Bill, I just looked at your type set again yesterday and, "I can only imagine". Like I ranted once about me making pretty darn good money as a traveling x-ray tech and having all rent and expenses taken care of and still not able to touch the coins in your collection. But that's just life. If I had my rathers then I'd love all of my early types to be crusty, problem free VF20's. But, I must be realistic. I couldn't stand such low grade coins such as this before but Goose3 helped to adjust my outlook by all of his low grade rare early types he used to share.

 

So my goal is to get coins as original and problem free as my budget allows. This cent has no rim disturbances, a smooth planchet and nice color. Plus, it is now in a PCGS slab which tells alot about its quality.

 

Nah, I'm happy with my scrub cent.

 

Conder101, once again, thanks for educating me about the diagnostics on this coin when I first got it. I really do appreciate it. And it is designated as AMERI on the slab.

[QuasarComics]

I was at Stack's for the first (and almost definitely only) time almost exactly 1 year ago. I was there for a convention and this was the day before the convention started (related to my regular work). So, I was walking around and had on jeans and a sweat shirt. Well, I was definitely rabble to them. I was very disenchanted, to say the least.

 

I wonder how many good customers (and lots of $) they have lost over the years by their attitude?

[BillJones]

I wonder how many are even known to still exist. I guess demand, in any grade, far exceeds supply.

Each of the four varieties of chain cent are considered to be roughly equal in rarity and are rated R-4- or about 200 for each. This is still almost certainly to high a rating. that would be roughly 800 specimens total and most copper specialists estimate there are probably closer to 1500 total pieces around, mostly low grade and problem coins.

 

The problem is the high demand from type collectors, and the copper specialists that want all four varieties. There just REALLY aren't enough to go around.

 

I think that the estimate of 1,500 Chain Cents is still too low. If you count all of the really low grade examples, I'd say the population is more like 2,000 to 2,500. Pieces like the coin with hammered edges that was pictured previously didn't even count so far guys like Sheldon were concerned. They were worth something like half of the basal value in his opinion. In 1958, when Penny Whimsy was published the basal value of an S-3 (the leaning R variety) which is the most common, was $7.00. THOSE were the days.

 

* The basal value was the system Sheldon developed to estimate market values for each of his varieties. The basal value was multiplied by the Sheldon grade on his scale to get the market value. There for a VF-20 S-3 was estimated to be worth $7.00 X 20 = $140.00

[Coindude]

Congrats Victor... no I have even more reason to covet your set!! Yours and Bill's that is!! Not really, but I do enjoy very much looking at your sets... gives me reason to keep trying.

[BillJones]

I've been a collector for almost 50 years. I've been buying type coins since the mid 1960s. As such I purchased coins at prices that would now be considered "bargains." At the time those prices were full retail.

 

When I was younger I envied the "old guys" collections too. It's really just of matter of dedication and being lucky enough to no hit a situation where you have sell what you have for financial reasons. As a collector, if you plan and save, it can be done; but I’ll acknowledge that it’s not easy.

 

And as you can see by the registry rankings, there are lots of guys who have better stuff than I do.