PCGS submission returns....ouch

[Jakeblue]

One thing I like about collecting is that the lessons keep coming and coming.

 

I sent some carson coins to PCGS that had been graded by NGC, ICG and ANACS. The ANACS was a newer slab and the NGC's were not old.

 

I have received 4 back; two NGC, one ICG and one ANACS. Only one was able to be crossed, two were not probably because I wanted the same grade and one was returned as "altered surfaces"

 

Guess which one crossed without any problem? The ICG!

 

The NGC's are an 1890 MS62 and a 1892 AU58PL. I did not want the grades reduced, and I did not crack the slabs.

 

The ICG is a 1880 MS 62, which is a very nice looking coin and PCGS agreed.

 

The ANACS is a 1885 MS 62 which has the altered surface. Without having the comments, I can only guess that it must be whizzed or repaired or something else.

 

I still have a few that have not been graded and not shipped back yet.

 

In hindsight, I should have cracked 'em before I send them in; at least the NGC's. Most threads that I have read have said that your best bet is to crack slabs before you send them in for re-grading. In this case, that is probably correct.

 

I was hoping to put this collection in a same brand slab is the reason why I sent them in. Nothing against NGC, just happened I had purchased most in PCGS slabs.

NGC

ANACS

I cropped 'em to get a better look.

I will try to add the ICG and other NGC tonight.

[MikeInFL]

Like you said, I think you shot yourself in the foot by not cracking them first. PCGS is notoriously tough on in-slab crossovers....Mike

[James_OldeTowne]

Like you said, I think you shot yourself in the foot by not cracking them first. PCGS is notoriously tough on in-slab crossovers....Mike

Although I have no first hand experience, this is what I have heard time and again as well. Unfortunately, I am not sure how much of a lesson you have actually learned with this experiment. One could suppose that the "lesson" is that PCGS is "tighter" than NGC. Then again, it could be that PCGS is less consistent than NGC.

 

I am always wary of these types of experiments, but again, my practical experience is limited.

[jesbroken]

Should one assume that the idea that PCGS would not willingly or easily crossover a competitor's coin out of spite has become an axiom, then it truly amazes me how many large corporations are ran on a 7th grade mental platform. I hope this is not the case, but would I send in a competitor's slab to crossover-after hearing this-probably not. With the way PCGS uses SS tactics on its forum members and allows such childish behavior to become common practice, I hope that they soon join ebay as a once was entity. JMO

Jim

[Mark T]

I would suspect that even if Cracked out PCGS would have caught the altered surfaces on the ANACS coin. Can you post a high resolution pictures of that 1885 CC ??

I read why you submitted the NGC coins however I would have just kept them in the NGC slabs unless the chances for an upgrade were very high. I have seen some nice ANACS and ICG coins offered by Heritage that would be great candidates for resubmitting.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have had nothing but bad experience trying to cross coins from NGC to PCGS. This also is true to a lesser degree with PCGS crossing to NGC, depending on the series. I even had some nice Peace dollars that I sent directly to HRH, by his request to cross from NGC to PCGS and most did not, even after David Hall said that they looked fine.

[PCcoins]

I have heard this a lot! Trying to cross NGC to PCGS slabs, with negative results. I believe there's so much hype and competition between these two top TPGs, they hate each others guts. Besides that, sounds like a waste of money to me with crossover grading (just paying top dollar for some high grade plastic!) Save your money and just buy some more coins ...

[SkyMan]

I have found crossing NGC to PCGS while leaving the coins in the slab to be a hit and miss procedure. I'm batting around 50%, which on the whole is profitable for the extra money the "new" coins have become worth. What gets me is that there are coins that I think are a lock to cross and they don't (including NGC/CAC'ed coins), while others that I've thrown in on a wing and a prayer have crossed.

 

Unless you are EXTREMELY sure that your coin will re-slab if necessary at NGC for the same grade you cracked it out, then you are definitely taking a risk if you crack them out.

[MarkFeld]

Here is the best solution, by far

[Jakeblue]

Here are the other two coins, the ICG 1880 MS62 and the NGC 1892 AU58PL. Sorry that the pics are not the best; they are from the original sellers pics.

 

I am biased, but that 1880 really is choice. That helps the pain. The 1892 PL looks MSPL to me. I might send that one back into NGC for a possible upgrade.

 

For that, should I crack or not crack for an NGC to NGC re-grade?

[Jakeblue]

Here is the best solution, by far

 

Yes, I think you are right. I was looking at the best buys at the time that fit my appeal and budget. Like I said earlier, I really did not care NGC or PCGS. Now, I do want the collection when finished to reflect one slab.

 

I am glad that that I found this forum (thumbs u before I crowned a TPG like NNC the king of all slabbers

[TomB]

It is unlikely that the ANACS coin was whizzed or repaired since ANACS would have almost certainly caught that manipulation. However, perhaps PCGS thought the coin was thumbed or slightly puttied, which can be difficult to catch at the time of certification, but easier to see later on.

 

As for crossing coins in holders from NGC to PCGS; I have limited experience attempting crossovers since I have little use for the service, but my success rate would be near 100%.

[MarkFeld]

However, perhaps PCGS thought the coin was thumbed or slightly puttied, which can be difficult to catch at the time of certification, but easier to see later on.

And sometimes coins that don't cross due to AT, altered surfaces, etc. upon being cracked out and submitted, end up getting graded.

[michael]

Like you said, I think you shot yourself in the foot by not cracking them first. PCGS is notoriously tough on in-slab crossovers....Mike

Although I have no first hand experience, this is what I have heard time and again as well. Unfortunately, I am not sure how much of a lesson you have actually learned with this experiment. One could suppose that the "lesson" is that PCGS is "tighter" than NGC. Then again, it could be that PCGS is less consistent than NGC.

 

I am always wary of these types of experiments, but again, my practical experience is limited.

 

 

(thumbs u

[Mark T]

Leave them alone in the NGC holders , a lot more risk then reward if you decide to do so. Can you get a high res of that 1885 CC posted?

[Jakeblue]

Well, the last 2 of the 6 coins is going to be mailed and they released the grades.

 

The last two are a 1882 CC ANACS MS 63 and a 1891 CC VAM NGC AU55....now guess which graded and which one did not?

 

The 1882 came straight across as a MS 63 , but the 1891 is listed as "cleaning".

 

Well, the record stands: ANACS 1 Graded Great, 1 Altered.

NGC 2 No Grade, 1 Cleaned

ICG 1 Graded Great.

 

NGC did not fare well with PCGS.

 

I added the original pics, but will add the "altered" and "cleaned" close-ups when I get them back from PCGS.

 

The 1891 is my very first Carson purchase and I should not of sent her in. Now, it will NEVER leave that slab, nor will it be sold until the kids bury me. Cleaned or not, NGC slabbed her and your "first time" will always hold significance.

[MikeKing]

all I can say is 'study the coins'. Study, study, study, grade them yourself, study. Eventually, I'll BET, you'll be able to guess, with significant accuracy, how PCGS will grade a coin in a given series, and which ones will be called 'altered surfaces' and which ones will be called 'AT' etc...

 

So just keep learning. That's it.

[cmerlo1-migration]

I have always been very happy with ICG's grading, especially since they switched grading teams with ANACS...