My letter to the Coin World editor concerning CAC

[EZ_E]

TO CAC OR NOT TO CAC, THAT IS THE QUESTION

 

I read with interest the point-counterpoint opinions in the last issue of Coin World. Both arguments have their merits but, as in life, things are seldom so black and white. There are advantages and disadvantages to the CAC concept. Just look at all of the numerous CAC threads on the NGC coin forums and one will find that opinions do not come in short measure.

 

The primary advantage of the CAC service is to provide the buyer a measure of security in their purchases since all coins are not created nor graded equal. This service would serve the novice collector best. The rookie numismatist will find that the numismatic learning curve will not be quite so steep if they stick with CAC approved coins. CAC can also be beneficial to the advanced collector who does not have the luxury of viewing a certain coin in hand prior to a sale. To recap, CAC is custom designed for those who can not or are not in a position to grade by filtering out the low end coins found in the major TPGS slabs.

 

Yet, it is not a perfect system. A CAC sticker by no means implies a PQ, premium quality coin, although it may very well be. It merely acknowledges that a specific coiin meets the minimum CAC standard for the grade assigned. Unfortunately, some unscrupulous dealers are marketing all of their CAC coins as PQ, deserving of a hefty premium regardless if it is true or not. Granted, a high-end, eye-appealing coin is most definitely worthy of a premium.This has been true since the early days of numismatics and is nothing new to advanced collectors.

 

If David Hall's original third party grading service model remained static then there would never have been the need for CAC. However, grading standards fluctuate and evolve over time. That is why there are so many previously graded AU Bust Halves now in mint state holders. Market grading has become the norm, which serves more as a pricing service than a grading service. In addition to the inconsistencies market grading has tossed into the equation, one must also factor in the fact that the top grading services often either tighten or loosen their standards over time. This is done to either manipulate their image in the marketplace or to encourage more submissions. So, did John Albanese have legitmate reasons for starting CAC? Most definitely! Are CAC's decisions always spot on? Of course not, but their opinion does add an additional measure of security to one's coin purchases.

 

Most any coin collector knows that there are many pitfalls along the way. This is why a numismatic education is crucial. Everytime a collector buys a raw coin, there is the risk that the coin is an overgraded, cleaned and/or problem coin. The same goes for slabbed coins in the less than reputable holders. Even advanced collector can be duped since the 'coin doctors' prevalent in our hobby can often mask most any kind of flaw or problem. But there is a grass-roots movement among the collector and dealer base that are working to nullify the profits these doctors make. Laura Sperber of Legend Numismatics is to be commended for her efforts to curb this practice.

 

I personally faced the brutal reality of the coin world in my rookie days and was outright lied to and cheated by multiple dealers. It was not until I gained a knowledgeable mentor that my education commenced in earnest. In addition, being an active member of the NGC coin boards has enhanced my experience in the hobby. If CAC existed in my early days in the hobby, then my initial losses through bad buys would have been reduced drastically.

 

In conclusion, I personally endorse the CAC concept with a caveat. Do not assume that just because a coin has the green CAC sticker that the coin is actually worth a premium. Happy collecting and may your coin purchase decisions always be a sound one!

[Oldtrader3]

Good letter Victor, and spot on for the new collector in regards to many of Coin World's advertisements.

[michael]

excellent (thumbs u the best summery of cac i have yet to read

 

fairly and consicely written

[CarlWohlforth]

I didn't read Coin World. It does sound like your letter makes some very good points. It is also well written and balanced! Is your post the exact text of the letter you send them? Did they publish your letter? I hope so! Good job in any case...

[EZ_E]

Thanks, guys. I sent it off via email to them today. I'm sure it will be published. Should have proof read it again since there's still a couple of mistakes. But I'm not Mark Hooten when it comes to articles.

 

Anyone see his latest in CW about Andrew Jackson?

[WoodenJefferson]

Great article Victor...many of my sentiments were echoed in your transcript.

[James_OldeTowne]

I thought both letters in that CoinWorld "point/counterpoint" were rather goofy. Just my opinion, though.

[Conder101]

Good letter but the first part is very familiar. It is the exact same justification that was used to promote the TPG's of PCGS and NGC back in the late 80's. Just take the second paragraph and replace CAC with TPG. Also note that the "learning curve" for new collectors definitely becomes less steep, for many if not most collectors it becomes non-existent because they never bother to learn grading and instead just blindly accept the assigned grade. In short they NEVER learn. I see the same thing happening with the CAC.

 

Then in the fourth paragraph you say that there would be no reason for CAC if the TPG's standards had never wavered, but grading stands chance and evolve. Well what makes you think that CAC's standards will not waver, change, or evolve? A few years from now CAC may be stricter and some coins that receive stickers today wouldn't receive them then. Or the converse they could be looser and coins that are rejected today will get them than. In short it will be just another subjective fourth party opinion attempting to apply a fluctuating standard.

[EZ_E]

Hmmm.....good point. Let's hope their standards remain constant.

[MikeInFL]

I like your letter, E. Seems very fair and balanced.

 

One of the things I learned from submitting coins to the CAC is just because a coin isn't "good for the grade" doesn't necessarily make it a bad coin...Mike

[mommam17]

I will second what Mike said, just because a coin doesn`t sticker does not make it a bad coin. I have/had some beautiful commems, to me, that did not sticker. They were toned and untoned. Because of this commems with stickers get my attention.

[MarkFeld]

I like your letter, E. Seems very fair and balanced.

 

One of the things I learned from submitting coins to the CAC is just because a coin isn't "good for the grade" doesn't necessarily make it a bad coin...Mike

I agree, and conversely, just because a coin is "good for the grade" doesn't necessarily make it a good coin, that I necessarily like.

[cpm9ball]

Thanks, guys. I sent it off via email to them today. I'm sure it will be published. Should have proof read it again since there's still a couple of mistakes. But I'm not Mark Hooten when it comes to articles.

 

Anyone see his latest in CW about Andrew Jackson?

 

Just a couple of grammatical errors, but very well written. As for me, I'm still "on the fence" about the concept because I buy what I like and not what someone tells me I should like.

 

As for Hoot, it seems like the only chance we have to read what he has to say is in CW and not here. Good luck in school, Mark!

 

Chris

[James_OldeTowne]

I guess I'll quote something I posted elsewhere:

 

It's discussions like this that lead me to be very thankful that the majority of my collection is not even in slabs, much less littered with stars and stickers. I don't ever plan to sell those coins in my core collection, so I really could not care less what a "third party" thinks of MY coins.

 

I can thumb through my albums and enjoy the COINS without being distracted by NOISE.

 

[MarkFeld]

I guess I'll quote something I posted elsewhere:

 

It's discussions like this that lead me to be very thankful that the majority of my collection is not even in slabs, much less littered with stars and stickers. I don't ever plan to sell those coins in my core collection, so I really could not care less what a "third party" thinks of MY coins.

 

I can thumb through my albums and enjoy the COINS without being distracted by NOISE.

 

James, if that (being distracted by noise) is your real concern. might I suggest some good headphones?

 

 

 

 

 

[mommam17]

I really enjoy looking at my coins. That`s what it is all about for me. Yes, I have slabs, stars, and stickers that add to the enjoyment for me. I know the coins are nice and PCGS, NGC and CAC all agree. They are set for my son to sell them someday!!

[EZ_E]

James, you're an advanced numismatist and you certainly don't go into a transaction blind. You accept a loss as par for the course if it is a coin you really want. But it is unfair to have so many new collectors taken advantage of by the crooks in coin land. What works for others doesn't necessarily mean that it's right for you.

[Oldtrader3]

Lets face it, learning to be an advanced numismatist is an expensive path for most, if not all of us. The path to becoming a numismatist is littered with mistakes and poor decisions on marginal or poor choice coins before the average collector becomes advanced.

[EZ_E]

Lets face it, learning to be an advanced numismatist is an expensive path for most, if not all of us. The path to becoming a numismatist is littered with mistakes and poor decisions on marginal or poor choice coins before the average collector becomes advanced.

 

Very true, hence the main reason I endorse CAC.

[michael]

I thought both letters in that CoinWorld "point/counterpoint" were rather goofy. Just my opinion, though.

 

(thumbs u

[michael]

I like your letter, E. Seems very fair and balanced.

 

One of the things I learned from submitting coins to the CAC is just because a coin isn't "good for the grade" doesn't necessarily make it a bad coin...Mike

(thumbs u

[EZ_E]

I got this email from the editor today. (thumbs u

 

 

 

Victor,

 

Thank you for your submission. We would like to publish it as a Guest Commentary in our issue dated Oct. 6. Please provide a couple of sentences about yourself and your collecting interests that could be used for an author ID.

 

Sincerely,

Beth Deisher, Editor

COIN WORLD and COIN VALUES (http://www.coinworld.com) (http://www.coinvaluesonline.com)

PO Box 150

Sidney, OH 45365-0150

(800) 673-8311 Ext. 181 Direct Dial: 937-493-0921

_________________________________________

COIN WORLD contains news coverage on U.S. and world coins,

tokens, medals, paper money and more! We offer something for

the beginner, intermediate, and advanced collector, along with

accurate and up-to-date prices of more than 50,000 U.S. coin values.

[michael]

superlative!!!!!!!!

[RGT]

I got this email from the editor today. (thumbs u

 

 

 

Victor,

 

Thank you for your submission. We would like to publish it as a Guest Commentary in our issue dated Oct. 6. Please provide a couple of sentences about yourself and your collecting interests that could be used for an author ID.

 

 

 

This is the main reason that I let my subscription to CW expire years ago. The quality of their articles and Guest Commentarys has just gotten so low. It seem they will publish anything these days.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good job, Vic. (thumbs u

 

Let me help with your personal profile. I think it should go something like this:

 

 

"I've been collecting coins since I was introduced to this facinating hobby while in the US Navy. My primary collection consists of coins removed from rebuilt motor-generators and breaker boxes. Recently I have expanded my collection with x-rayed coins removed from children and small animals. NGC and PCGS have unjustly refused to grade my collection so they now all reside in NTC and NNC holders. My goal is to get CAC to recognize these underrated grading services and have all of my coins stickered."

[Oldtrader3]

Congratulations, Victor. It's great to be a published writer.

[Houston Investor]

I buy nice coins whether CAC or not. While I may sell non cac coins at a modest discount vs Trends, the CAC coins are priced at all the money.

 

After a lot of thought I really have nothing against folks that want CAC coins. But if they want mine, they are going to have to pay the money!

[EZ_E]

 

 

This is the main reason that I let my subscription to CW expire years ago. The quality of their articles and Guest Commentarys has just gotten so low. It seem they will publish anything these days.

R.O.T.F.L.M.A.O.!!!!!!

 

Thanks, Charlie. It is cool to have one's writing recognized. I've had quite a few things published in the past from a doggy newspaper, to an x-ray journal to lots of coin editorials. This is the first coin article of mine to get its own billing, though.

 

I collected coins seriously as a kid in the mid to late 1970's. My interest was renewed in the hobby in 2002 by watching The Coin Vault on television. I had more disposable income than brains at the time but after meeting great friends and mentors on the NGC coin boards and taking an ANA coin grading seminar, I started making better and wiser choices in my purchasing habits. I started working on a complete set of modern commemorative silver dollars from the beginning which I finally completed this year. However, nearly from the start, my collecting interests shifted towards type coins. I am currently ranked #18 on the NGC type registry set which includes modern issues.

[RGT]

I collected coins seriously as a kid in the mid to late 1970's. My interest was renewed in the hobby in 2002 by watching The Coin Vault on television. I had more disposable income than brains at the time but after meeting great friends and mentors on the NGC coin boards and taking an ANA coin grading seminar, I started making better and wiser choices in my purchasing habits. I started working on a complete set of modern commemorative silver dollars from the beginning which I finally completed this year. However, nearly from the start, my collecting interests shifted towards type coins. I am currently ranked #18 on the NGC type registry set which includes modern issues.

 

I see you decided not to use my suggestions in your collecting profile. I think my version was more interesting, but at least you got the Coin Vault comment in there so they will know that you are a serious collector. I'm sure CW will edit down your version to something like this.

 

"I collected coins seriously as a kid in 2002 by watching The Coin Vault on television. I had disposable income at the time. I started working on a complete set of modern commemorative silver dollars from the beginning which I finally completed this year. I am currently ranked on the NGC registry set which includes modern issues."