Redfield vs. Paramount

[prudden]

Hey all,

I came across a couple of Ebay auctions of Paramount slabbed Morgans. In both cases the Seller claimed they were "Redfield" pedigree.The slab said nothing about Redfield.Only Paramount. I was under the impression that in order to be "Redfield"s the slab must say "A Morgan Dollar from the Redfield Collection". True,not true? Thanks

[jesbroken]

According to several web sites I perused, Paramount did not always notate that the Morgans were from the Redfield Hoard, so go figure, it means that they could offer more than they actually had if they wanted to.

Here is one web site that tells the story. How factual-unknown to me.

Jim

 

Redfield Hoard

[Arizonadesertrat]

Mine states that it is from the Redfield Collection. If you are looking for a Redfield coin, I would insist on getting one in a Paramount holder that specifically notes this. Beware of the Paramount grading---I have looked at ca. 100 of these coins and the grades on the holders are a joke. Most grade MS61-63, and I have seen what I thought was a 64 coin. Many of these coins will have unattractive spotting/staining [supposedly due to peach juice].

[Conder101]

If it doesn't say Redfield, I would assume it is NOT a Redfield.They had Redfield holders down to the MS-60 level yet the non Redfield holders come in grades up to 65plus. So what would be the reason to put a Redfield coin in a non-Rdfield holder? On the other hand since the coins in the Redfield holders were selling for more money, there would be an incentive to put non-Redfield coins in Redfield lookalike holders.

[rrantique]

Hey all,

I came across a couple of Ebay auctions of Paramount slabbed Morgans. In both cases the Seller claimed they were "Redfield" pedigree.The slab said nothing about Redfield.Only Paramount. I was under the impression that in order to be "Redfield"s the slab must say "A Morgan Dollar from the Redfield Collection". True,not true? Thanks

 

(thumbs u

[James_OldeTowne]

Be aware that "Paramount" grading is abyssmal on these coins. I cataloged a couple recently, and they were between seven and ten points overgraded.

[prudden]

Be aware that "Paramount" grading is abyssmal on these coins. I cataloged a couple recently, and they were between seven and ten points overgraded.

 

Yeah,it sure is. I think the best I've seen is a 63. I wouldn't pay MS 65 prices on any one I've seen. Don't really care about the pedigree. Besides,most of them don't look right.Almost all of them have the same odd look.

[Conder101]

Be aware that "Paramount" grading is abyssmal on these coins. I cataloged a couple recently, and they were between seven and ten points overgraded.

Also remember that these were assigned MS grades years before the ANA grading guide published standards for MS-60 and MS-65.

[Oldtrader3]

I've noticed on Ebay that they are still asking MS65+ prices for Paramount slabbed Morgans with the Redfield name on them. All the ones that I have seen were all MS60-MS63.

[Kite_Fun_Books]

First. If they say REDFIELD, they are redfield. If they don't, they were other silver dollars paramount was selling. There is very little overlap between the dates from the redfield hoard, and the ones that paramount was selling otherwise. The first paramount catalog I had that listed the redfields didn't even had them in cases. The following quarterly catalog they were in the red cases. Both redfield and non redfield come in a variety of grades, most common the MS65. There was no orleans from the redfield hoard at all. Actually, I find that it the non-redfields in similar cases make a good complement to a collection of redfields.

 

Second, the typical toning is actual from the impurities in the insert. When they first came out, they were blast white. Most likely they are continuing to tone. This is also why the non-redfield paramounts have a similar appearance.

 

Third, the grading. Paramount was the first to attempt to use a numerical grading system for morgan dollars. There definitions were something like average BU and above average BU. There catalog gave the example that of an average bag of 1000, 70% would rate average (MS60) and 30% would be above average (MS65.) Later these terms would be redefined as they are known today. However, at the time they were not overgraded as they met the stated standard. Although ebay sellers which use the grades and don't mention it was based on a different set of standards can mislead bidders.

 

In my opinion, most of the time the price should be the price of the coin, correctly graded plus a premium for the case. ($100 premium is common.) For the more common coins, this can bring a MS62 coin up to the MS65+ price. However, for the more expensive coins, they can usually be had for much less then the MS65 price.