The BEST Counterfeit I've seen so far

[braddick]

This is by far the best counterfeit I've seen of any U.S. coin. The weight is exact with all the proper edge markings. These have been around for a couple of years now, but have been perfected just within the last few weeks. I own a few of the earlier editions and this one removes the 'errors' on that first batch. AU'ish in nature, can you imagine how easy it would be to rock tumble this one down to about VF or so?

 

This would fool just about anyone. (And, remember- these photos are blown way up and the coin looks even more realistic, in hand.)

 

[Revenant]

You seem almost happy, or is it awe?

[jgrinz]

I can almost hear that tumbler now

 

 

[WoodenJefferson]

No doubt this a very good fake and would fool most collectors, a early coin collector should still question the dentils, especially on the reverse.

 

Are the counterfeiters getting better? Yes!

 

Pat, would you say this made from coin silver? The reason I ask is because you said it meets the weight requirement and it looks like it has some mint luster for crying out loud!

 

[19Lyds]

This is by far the best counterfeit I've seen of any U.S. coin. The weight is exact with all the proper edge markings. These have been around for a couple of years now, but have been perfected just within the last few weeks. I own a few of the earlier editions and this one removes the 'errors' on that first batch. AU'ish in nature, can you imagine how easy it would be to rock tumble this one down to about VF or so?

 

This would fool just about anyone. (And, remember- these photos are blown way up and the coin looks even more realistic, in hand.)

 

 

You simply must share how you came about this one which has been perfected "just within the past two weeks".

[DC Dawg]

This would fool just about anyone. (And, remember- these photos are blown way up and the coin looks even more realistic, in hand.)

I can't wait for the end of the Olympics to see what comes back to the US!

 

Scott

[braddick]

It is silver and I've been in email contact with the minter of this one and the others for about 18 months now.

 

I do have a new rock tumbler and this one will be soon entering it for educational purposes only. I will share my results here as the wear progresses.

[Oldtrader3]

The denticles are the only dead give away on this coin, along with the heavy polish marks. If it was tumbled it might pass.

[Just Bob]

Did the minter say how they discovered that there were "errors" on the earlier batches?

[19Lyds]

Can you see about getting the pictures back? I've got Red X's.

[braddick]

Sorry, that is my boomspeed account and it seems lately about once a week the site is down.

The photos are back up now.

[WoodenJefferson]

Did the minter say how they discovered that there were "errors" on the earlier batches?

 

The counterfeiters read all our critiques here on how to spot all the bogus design anomalies, took notes and then applied those notes to create even better deceiving specimens.

[stev32k]

I assume you have reported the counterfeiter to the U.S. Secret Service?

[Oldtrader3]

There are some issues with the striking of the stars on the obverse that would give it away for me.

[classicalman-migration]

I've been in email contact with the minter of this one and the others for about 18 months now.

 

Would say its safe to assume that NO, he hasn't been in contact with U.S.S.S. which in my opinion, makes him an accessory....et tu, coin Dr?

[Oldtrader3]

Actually, if it is the same guy as in the board posts a couple of months ago, I reported him to the Secret Service.

[braddick]

Here's another, just received today.

 

 

[19Lyds]

I assume you have reported the counterfeiter to the U.S. Secret Service?

 

Uhhhhh, I don;t think so since the coin in the OP is in the hands of the op and destined for the rock polisher "for educational purposes only".

 

I do have a new rock tumbler and this one will be soon entering it for educational purposes only. I will share my results here as the wear progresses.

 

This.................makes me nervous since the results will be publically posted for ALL to see (including the counterfeiter).

 

I would much rather this type of operation occur between the OP and perhaps a TPG.

[NoTwilight]

Lee,

You can trust Pat.

 

Pat,

I don't think a rock tumbler will make realiztic looking wear. the edges will wear at a much higher rate.

 

--Jerry

[braddick]

Lee,

You can trust Pat.

 

Pat,

I don't think a rock tumbler will make realiztic looking wear. the edges will wear at a much higher rate.

 

--Jerry

 

If the consensus is these coins should not be shown I have no problem in not doing so.

 

I have been and am in communications with those who can make a real difference. I realized this was going to be a problem last August and more so at the end of last December. Nothing I've shown so far compromises that. But, with that said, perhaps Lee is correct and discussion here is not wise.

[MAULEMALL]

Lee,

You can trust Pat.

 

Pat,

I don't think a rock tumbler will make realiztic looking wear. the edges will wear at a much higher rate.

 

--Jerry

 

If the consensus is these coins should not be shown I have no problem in not doing so.

 

I have been and am in communications with those who can make a real difference. I realized this was going to be a problem last August and more so at the end of last December. Nothing I've shown so far compromises that. But, with that said, perhaps Lee is correct and discussion here is not wise.

If you decide to stop I propose that you keep those of us who would like to continue with the educational aspects up to date via the PM function.

[braddick]

"If you decide to stop I propose that you keep those of us who would like to continue with the educational aspects up to date via the PM function."

 

That's an excellent idea! Will do so.

[jman425]

This is very educational. Please keep us posted.

[kranky]

Are these die-struck?

[19Lyds]

Lee,

You can trust Pat.

 

Pat,

I don't think a rock tumbler will make realiztic looking wear. the edges will wear at a much higher rate.

 

--Jerry

 

If the consensus is these coins should not be shown I have no problem in not doing so.

 

I have been and am in communications with those who can make a real difference. I realized this was going to be a problem last August and more so at the end of last December. Nothing I've shown so far compromises that. But, with that said, perhaps Lee is correct and discussion here is not wise.

 

My concern lies with this thread and this from ATS and what happened to the poster of that thread. Seemingly simple questions ended up costing this poster his integrity.

 

I have no doubt that education is a valuable aspect of these and other forums but that very education can and often does contribute to the proliferation of bad coins within the market place.

 

IMO, education for counterfeit coins should be left at identifying the traits associated with counterfeits and not in providing methods and results of modifying known counterfeit coins to make them appear as passable.

 

If Pat's rock polisher experiment shows favorable results with producing wear and the coin in the post could pass as authentic, how many lurkers or newbie's or even old salts would be tempted to do the exact same thing without reporting the results of their experiments and instead selling them to less educated individuals? Better yet, how many "counterfeiters" are actually lurkers on the boards?

 

If you are truely interested in education, then educate those that CAN make a difference and not those that could possibly use this education for their greedy exploits and that is my opinion.

 

Can I trust Pat? I've never dealt with Pat and I don't know Pat! Just like I do not know the folks that read these and other forums.

 

The real question should be:

"Do I feel comfortable having this information posted on a 'public' forum"?

My answer would be no.

[braddick]

Lee,

You can trust Pat.

 

Pat,

I don't think a rock tumbler will make realiztic looking wear. the edges will wear at a much higher rate.

 

--Jerry

 

If the consensus is these coins should not be shown I have no problem in not doing so.

 

I have been and am in communications with those who can make a real difference. I realized this was going to be a problem last August and more so at the end of last December. Nothing I've shown so far compromises that. But, with that said, perhaps Lee is correct and discussion here is not wise.

 

My concern lies with this thread and this from ATS and what happened to the poster of that thread. Seemingly simple questions ended up costing this poster his integrity.

 

I have no doubt that education is a valuable aspect of these and other forums but that very education can and often does contribute to the proliferation of bad coins within the market place.

 

IMO, education for counterfeit coins should be left at identifying the traits associated with counterfeits and not in providing methods and results of modifying known counterfeit coins to make them appear as passable.

 

If Pat's rock polisher experiment shows favorable results with producing wear and the coin in the post could pass as authentic, how many lurkers or newbie's or even old salts would be tempted to do the exact same thing without reporting the results of their experiments and instead selling them to less educated individuals? Better yet, how many "counterfeiters" are actually lurkers on the boards?

 

If you are truely interested in education, then educate those that CAN make a difference and not those that could possibly use this education for their greedy exploits and that is my opinion.

 

Can I trust Pat? I've never dealt with Pat and I don't know Pat! Just like I do not know the folks that read these and other forums.

 

The real question should be:

"Do I feel comfortable having this information posted on a 'public' forum"?

My answer would be no.

 

Lee, please re-read my comments above. I've already agreed with you before you posted again to this thread.

You're preaching to the choir.

[19Lyds]

I read your post Pat, I just wanted folks to know where I was coming from.

[MAULEMALL]

I read your post Pat, I just wanted folks to know where I was coming from.

ANY comparison between MrB. And that piece of nothing ATS is Bull and to be honest,You need to check yourself..

I have had the pleasure of communicating with Pat Braddick on these boards for more than a few years and He has proven his integrity.

 

You may want to appoligize to bolster yours.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[braddick]

I read your post Pat, I just wanted folks to know where I was coming from.

ANY comparison between MrB. And that piece of nothing ATS is Bull and to be honest,You need to check yourself..

I have had the pleasure of communicating with Pat Braddick on these boards for more than a few years and He has proven his integrity.

 

You may want to appoligize to bolster yours.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks MAULEMALL, but I didn't read Lee's comments quite that way. We're all family here and his concerns are valid and I appreciate the tap on the shoulder as the last thing I want to do is type of a thread/post that would benefit those minting these counterfeits.

[MikeInFL]

I'm going to argue the other side of this...

 

In my opinion, this is precisely the type of information that SHOULD be made public. The educational value of something like Pat is doing (and kudos to you, sir) is multiplied by the number of people that have access to that information and far surpasses the value received by the countefeitter. Because in so doing, Pat's sharing of information makes the counterfeitter take yet another step -- one that would require additional time, experimentation, expense, etc. To not share gives the counterfeitter a leg up.

 

Just my opinion, respectfully submitted....Mike

 

p.s. I don't follow this type closely at all, but the obverse denticles at k7 looked wrong to my eye immediately.