PO'ed and scratching my head. NGC Star designation review results.

[Coin]

I'm taking the Devil's advocate approach to this 'STAR' topic .

 

I for one think NGC should rid itself of this star thing and just elongate the holders adding more room to make one of twelve static graders comments to print by the grade for us to bicker over . ....or just put a plus mark next to the number , but also be free to put a minus mark too....geezzz....it will never end.

 

 

I understand there are those that go gaa-gaa over being ahead of the herd , even by only a half-point , but then if a coin is pretty and displays the shoulda-coulda stuff , we would all want some kind of compensation for it being too weak on merits to grade higher and will take what we can get , even a designator that says it is a little better , but not good enough .( what we actually say though sounds more like ::::: It's a MS66 , but it is a star ....that means it is prettier than the other 66's but not quite good enough to get a 67...or one side is 67 quality the other is only 66 , so I got a 66.5 grade).

 

 

 

WHY on this green Earth do you want a STAR designation on your slab? I thought that these were a definite scar/blight on the holders because they ensure that everyone knows that the encapsulated coin is a lower-par coin that did not make the cut to the next grade , but is somehow 'stuck' in between grades .

 

Does the star mean that a coin is NOT good enough for the next higher grade or what?

 

FOR EXAMPLE : MS64 * versus MS65 ....the 65 is the superior coin. Period.

 

add a little splash of color to the MS64 and it is now , what ? supposed to be not good enough to grade higher , but looks pretty? so the STAR is supposed to mean what again....it is an MS64 an a half , a MS64.5 or a MS64+ , but not MS65?

 

Really why all the incredible whining about a silly star dot on a holder.....is there more to a STAR?

 

Does it now ALSO , AT THE SAME TIME , have another meaning ? Does it mean that not only is a coin NOT good enough for the next higher grade due to its FAULTS or lackings , IT IS a LOWER grade coin that has some , or a few good points going for it , but it is STILL NOT good enough , technically or otherwise , to be graded at the next higher grade .......however ...it has 'purty' colors , or one side is better/worse , more/less cameo for proofs ....is a star important to anybody?

 

I mean if yo go to a car lot and the salesman says , this car would sale for $30,000 but the paintjob is a $20,000 paint job .....it is a $30,000 car but the color is lacking....lets give it a Star . Would you now pay $30,000 for this car that is lacking....a car that is 0.5 away from the next grade or value?

 

A star either means it is not good enough for a higher grade , or it is 0.5 .....whatever grade and a plus mark .....higher than the rest at the current grade level. IT is only poking its little head just a half-level higher than the rest at the grade ....not very much of anything to brag about is it?

 

So why all the dramatics and fuss over this star thingy?

 

 

BTW that is a FBL in my book , but I do not have it in hand either.....could be that scratch to the left of the bell crack is on the holder or planchete prior to striking , I wonder what the grader's COMMENTS were about it not getting the FBL....YOU did CALL NGC and ask them before you started the tirade in open forum...yes?

[Coin]

BTW , I love those colors , mottled or not , original and very nice....I would be proud to own any of them , regardless of the designations ....you definitely have an eye for color on these and the other coins you have posted before .

 

Now that you have the coins in hand and the grades are dissappointing...it is learning time.

Time to call NGC and start asking pointed questions about the services you PAID for and why they or you are misunderstanding the qualifications of these items.

 

You should have already contacted NGC directly by phone or email to DISCUSS your issues PRIOR to spouting off in a public forum ,........................................................ but maybe the SHOCK of getting such nice coins back with only the quarter being recognized ....short-circuited your brain and you HAD to ask HERE ...WHY....they did not see and what you saw ....BEFORE..... you called NGC ....and asked the questions to the ACTUAL people that DID/DID NOT do the designations....sort of not give them a chance to defend their decisions before prosecuting their decisions in public without their voice being heard? Where is the NGC side....what have the graders told you from your contact with them about why they did not designate...let's hear them.

[dooly]

I'm taking the Devil's advocate approach to this 'STAR' topic .

 

Does the star mean that a coin is NOT good enough for the next higher grade or what?

 

FOR EXAMPLE : MS64 * versus MS65 ....the 65 is the superior coin. Period.

 

Hi

 

I do agree on a lot of your points BUT! the statement above i have trouble with.. there is another example that the star will work if no other higher grades have been assigned to the particular coin.. i e

 

I collect 1971 proofs MS 69*'s and this is because there are no MS70's so why would i buy MS 69 coins when there are MS 69* coins graded

 

this is just my example but i bet there are thousands of examples out there

 

all the best dooly

[coinman1794]

I'm taking the Devil's advocate approach to this 'STAR' topic .

 

I for one think NGC should rid itself of this star thing and just elongate the holders adding more room to make one of twelve static graders comments to print by the grade for us to bicker over . ....or just put a plus mark next to the number , but also be free to put a minus mark too....geezzz....it will never end.

 

 

I understand there are those that go gaa-gaa over being ahead of the herd , even by only a half-point , but then if a coin is pretty and displays the shoulda-coulda stuff , we would all want some kind of compensation for it being too weak on merits to grade higher and will take what we can get , even a designator that says it is a little better , but not good enough .( what we actually say though sounds more like ::::: It's a MS66 , but it is a star ....that means it is prettier than the other 66's but not quite good enough to get a 67...or one side is 67 quality the other is only 66 , so I got a 66.5 grade).

 

 

 

WHY on this green Earth do you want a STAR designation on your slab? I thought that these were a definite scar/blight on the holders because they ensure that everyone knows that the encapsulated coin is a lower-par coin that did not make the cut to the next grade , but is somehow 'stuck' in between grades .

 

Does the star mean that a coin is NOT good enough for the next higher grade or what?

 

FOR EXAMPLE : MS64 * versus MS65 ....the 65 is the superior coin. Period.

 

add a little splash of color to the MS64 and it is now , what ? supposed to be not good enough to grade higher , but looks pretty? so the STAR is supposed to mean what again....it is an MS64 an a half , a MS64.5 or a MS64+ , but not MS65?

 

Really why all the incredible whining about a silly star dot on a holder.....is there more to a STAR?

 

Does it now ALSO , AT THE SAME TIME , have another meaning ? Does it mean that not only is a coin NOT good enough for the next higher grade due to its FAULTS or lackings , IT IS a LOWER grade coin that has some , or a few good points going for it , but it is STILL NOT good enough , technically or otherwise , to be graded at the next higher grade .......however ...it has 'purty' colors , or one side is better/worse , more/less cameo for proofs ....is a star important to anybody?

 

I mean if yo go to a car lot and the salesman says , this car would sale for $30,000 but the paintjob is a $20,000 paint job .....it is a $30,000 car but the color is lacking....lets give it a Star . Would you now pay $30,000 for this car that is lacking....a car that is 0.5 away from the next grade or value?

 

A star either means it is not good enough for a higher grade , or it is 0.5 .....whatever grade and a plus mark .....higher than the rest at the current grade level. IT is only poking its little head just a half-level higher than the rest at the grade ....not very much of anything to brag about is it?

 

 

 

 

The Star designation has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the grade of the coin! It was ment to note that the coin had great eye appeal or to denote a one-sided PL or Cameo coin. A Star coin might be the lowest possible example for that grade, or the most PQ coin you've ever seen. However, it would be much more helpful in the case of a one-sided PL to simply state "PL Obverse" rather than use a Star, and on this we can agree.

[kryptonitecomics]

Here is a head scratcher......this got a star and your Frankies didn't

 

1960 Franklin 50c MS64 *Star

 

[lehigh96]

 

FOR EXAMPLE : MS64 * versus MS65 ....the 65 is the superior coin. Period.

 

Hmmm! How long have you been holding that inside. You really shouldn't do that, it is bad for your health. Anyway, here are two Morgan Dollars from the Great Falls collection. You guessed it, one is an MS64* and the other is an MS65. Which one is the superior coin again?

 

 

I really don't expect everyone to understand or agree with the star designation, but you should understand that some collectors would rather have a coin with a lower technical grade and superior eye appeal than a generic looking gem.

 

With respect to my 1942-S Jefferson Nickel, it is about registry points. Simply put, my coin gets 163 points as an MS67. If it had the star that it rightly deserves, it would get 381 points. Compare that with an MS67 5FS which gets 336 points. Very few collectors would criticize the collector that felt his nickel should have the FS designation. IMO, I could care less about FS, and refuse to pay the ridiculous premiums they bring. I can't spend $5,000 on a Jefferson Nickel, just can't do it. I care about the eye appeal of the coin and associated toning. I am building a rainbow Jefferson war nickel set and can compete with the FS guys as long as my coins have the star designation. I did not create the game, I am just playing it.

[PCcoins]

Here is a head scratcher......this got a star and your Frankies didn't

 

 

That's a head scratcher. The obverse is appealing, but the reverse not so much. Better than the average joe, but if this received the star then Sy's Frankies should have starred.

[SkyMan]

Here is a head scratcher......this got a star and your Frankies didn't

 

 

That's a head scratcher. The obverse is appealing, but the reverse not so much. Better than the average joe, but if this received the star then Sy's Frankies should have starred.

 

Welllllllllll, for a 1960-P that is a superior looking coin. You don't get much in the way of decently toned coins for that date/mm. However, I do agree with you in the broader sense that it is fairly ridiculous for that coin to have a star and the '54-D or '49-D not have one, AS LONG AS YOU ARE JUDGING THE COIN FOR THE SPECIFIC DATE/MM.

[WoodenJefferson]

Here is a head scratcher......this got a star and your Frankies didn't

 

1960 Franklin 50c MS64 *Star

 

 

When I saw this coin my mind went immediatly to Skie's Frankie that was rejected for a star and yet that one got it ~shivering willy nilly~. Something is rotten in Denmark.

[ant]

Here is a head scratcher......this got a star and your Frankies didn't

 

1960 Franklin 50c MS64 *Star

 

 

finger print frankie got a star

[Coin]

Yes ,

I know... in order to generate responses I had to put at least one blatant blanket verse like , M65 is always bettter than any 64* .

 

As I said , playing devil's advocate on the opposite side of the fence .

 

I have had several star'd coins returned on submissions that also do not warrant the designation , but seemed like a 'give-me' .

 

I understand that you would want the highest recognition for the highest position of your coins in any series . I commented on what I've been told or heard about the star designations...I was taking the opposite side or other end approach to the topic .

 

 

I did , however , mean for you to let us know the response from your conversation with NGC , either from the customer service side or the grader's comment side from your conversation with them . You have called the 1-800 number , right ..... I mean you would not just start a " I'm PO'd post" without finding out from the source first and getting all the information first ?

I would really like to know why you didn't get the FBL on the Frankie anyway.

[Coin]

 

I really don't expect everyone to understand or agree with the star designation, but you should understand that some collectors would rather have a coin with a lower technical grade and superior eye appeal than a generic looking gem.

 

 

I can agree 100 % with this . I have many AU's that are superior to many 62-64 Indian head nickels in my album set.

 

 

 

 

With respect to my 1942-S Jefferson Nickel, it is about registry points. Simply put, my coin gets 163 points as an MS67. If it had the star that it rightly deserves, it would get 381 points. Compare that with an MS67 5FS which gets 336 points. Very few collectors would criticize the collector that felt his nickel should have the FS designation. IMO, I could care less about FS, and refuse to pay the ridiculous premiums they bring. I can't spend $5,000 on a Jefferson Nickel, just can't do it. I care about the eye appeal of the coin and associated toning. I am building a rainbow Jefferson war nickel set and can compete with the FS guys as long as my coins have the star designation. I did not create the game, I am just playing it.

 

I see , I know the FS and stars have nothing in comparison , so it is the point system of the registry game your playing because FS nickels are expensive. You could search and submit nickels and not have to pay $5000 . I do .

 

I also like your innovative approach to competition against the status quo point system . You could also ask NGC to start another category , who knows that could happen .

 

I also buy FS nickels from time-to-time , when I can spend the money and do understand that the costs are indeed high going the purchase route.

 

I have seen your coin posts and do not for a minute believe that it is all about registry points with your coins. You have posted some of the most colorful and some of the more beautiful coins on the forum. I think you actually like and love the best looking coins for the money (who doesn't), and the registry is second to that.

[lehigh96]

Well that was a great response indeed. Never have I been exposed so completely yet complemented at the same time before. I don't know whether to argue or say thanks. Since you are right, I guess I will just say thank you!

 

Of course I don't really purchase coins because of the registry points. Almost all of my purchases must meet my own personal standards regarding eye appeal first. However, the Jefferson War Nickel Set is a set that I can actually compete head to head against others because of the star designation. The star results in huge points for every issue just like the FS designation.

 

For example, I have the pleasure of unveiling my most recent acquisition, a 1945-P MS67* with absolutely incredible eye appeal. The total population of the 1945-P MS67* is exactly the same as the population of the 1945-P MS67 5FS, both have 7 examples. The star gets 770 points and the FS gets 908. I assure you that I am not complaining because the MS67 5FS will run you over $5,000 whereas I got my MS67* for under $500. The big money guys can chase their undisturbed steps and I can look for my toners and we will all happily compete for points. Hooray for the star leveling the playing field.

 

I currently have 3 coins in my set that I strongly feel deserve a star designation which would result in a bump of 436 points. My set is currently in 17th place and the point bump would take me to 9th place. However, I have no plans to send the coins to NGC for review until I complete my set. I have no chance of ever surpassing the #1 or #2 sets and I think I may be able to achieve 3rd place without the point bump from the star status. If I ever find a nicely toned 1943/2-P in MS66 or MS67, 3rd place is mine for sure. Anyway, here is my most recent addition.

 

 

[SkyMan]

Pretty coin, Paul.