Too Much spotting on a PF67 shield nickel?

[Amazon-migration]

I'm not really sure how many spots are acceptable on a PF67 coin. I would have thought that there shouldn't be any spots on a 67? Is it turning in it's holder?

 

 

Enhanced photo:

 

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=28052&Lot_No=22121

 

Thanks for the input!

[Coindude]

Na, I think that's one gorgeous coin. I'd call it a 67 for sure. Spots probably kept if from 68!

[michael]

overdipped without a proper rinse

hence dip residue left on the coin

so far the coin is retoning with classic ugly champagne/yellowish-brown

dip residue toning

 

and with little to no mirrors on this coin (which is typical) and the carbon spotting

this all adds up to

a coin with below average eye appeal

 

 

it is totally unacceptable to me as a proof 67

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MarkFeld]

While I see spots on PR67 Shield, Liberty and Buffalo Nickels fairly frequently, I much prefer to buy examples which are spot-free. Maybe the spotted ones are accurately graded and maybe they're not, but either way, they're not for me.

[coinman1794]

I wouldn't by it either, but the spots seem to be rather tiny and I think that many MS67s have them.

[dooly]

Nice coin but i would wait for another if you are going to spend that kind of money myself..

[James_OldeTowne]

Those spots do not bother me in the slightest, and in fact, I prefer them there. They attest to original surfaces.

 

When I see a totally spotless early proof nickel, my first thought is always "has it been cleaned?".

 

From the limited images, this appears to be an awesome coin at the listed grade.

[MarkFeld]

Those spots do not bother me in the slightest, and in fact, I prefer them there. They attest to original surfaces.

 

When I see a totally spotless early proof nickel, my first thought is always "has it been cleaned?".

 

From the limited images, this appears to be an awesome coin at the listed grade.

I see it very differently. I much prefer that spots not be present and don't assume that a spot-free example has been cleaned. There are plenty of spot-free ones out there which also appear to be un-dipped/original.

[dooly]

I agree Mark if acetone is used it would not take Carbon spots off the coin.. correct me if i am wrong

[Amazon-migration]

Thanks for the comments everyone. The spots do not really bother me, but I wanted to make sure it wasn't starting to turn and that's why someone's selling it.

 

overdipped without a proper rinse

hence dip residue left on the coin

so far the coin is retoning with classic ugly champagne/yellowish-brown

dip residue toning

 

and with little to no mirrors on this coin (which is typical) and the carbon spotting

this all adds up to

a coin with below average eye appeal

 

 

it is totally unacceptable to me as a proof 67

 

What does everyone think about Michael's comments about the dip residue?

 

Once again thanks!

[dooly]

? problem is until you have it in the hand its going to be hard to tell if it has been dipped or not and how much residue is left .. saying that i don't think it would be a problem for NCS to sort it out if there is any left on the coin.! and they could probably sort the rest of the spots out for you..

[MarkFeld]

Thanks for the comments everyone. The spots do not really bother me, but I wanted to make sure it wasn't starting to turn and that's why someone's selling it.

 

overdipped without a proper rinse

hence dip residue left on the coin

so far the coin is retoning with classic ugly champagne/yellowish-brown

dip residue toning

 

and with little to no mirrors on this coin (which is typical) and the carbon spotting

this all adds up to

a coin with below average eye appeal

 

 

it is totally unacceptable to me as a proof 67

 

What does everyone think about Michael's comments about the dip residue?

 

Once again thanks!

If that coin has been dipped, it's not obvious to me from the images. I'm not saying it hasn't been dipped - only that I can't tell. And images often fail to show the mirror surfaces on Proof coins adequately/accurately. So, I think Michael might have jumped to an incorrect conclusion or conclusions and gone overboard, as he has been known to do on occasion.

[dooly]

Thanks for the comments everyone. The spots do not really bother me, but I wanted to make sure it wasn't starting to turn and that's why someone's selling it.

 

overdipped without a proper rinse

hence dip residue left on the coin

so far the coin is retoning with classic ugly champagne/yellowish-brown

dip residue toning

 

and with little to no mirrors on this coin (which is typical) and the carbon spotting

this all adds up to

a coin with below average eye appeal

 

 

it is totally unacceptable to me as a proof 67

 

What does everyone think about Michael's comments about the dip residue?

 

Once again thanks!

If that coin has been dipped, it's not obvious to me from the images. I'm not saying it hasn't been dipped - only that I can't tell. And images often fail to show the mirror surfaces on Proof coins adequately/accurately. So, I think Michael might have jumped to an incorrect conclusion or conclusions and gone overboard, as he has been known to do on occasion.

 

Gosh you are quick tonight Mark !!

[Amazon-migration]

I've never dipped a coin, so I don't know how dip residue would look like. I also know that heritage doesn't always have the best images of there coins... Also, would dip residue be harmful to the coin in the long run? About NCS, I would be too afraid to send this coin in and closing a grade of two!

[James_OldeTowne]

My understanding is that carbon spots cannot be dipped off, and must be removed mechanically. I do know personally a gentleman who specializes in just that practice - removing carbon spots. After abrading the spot(s) off, the coin must be stripped back somewhat to give the surfaces a consistent quality, then the whole coin recolored to look original again.

 

This is why carbon spots don't scare me. If you see them, the odds of it being an original coin go up considerably. There certainly are original coins that never got spotted to begin with, but let's face it, after 140 years, a high percentage of proof nickels do develop spots.

 

As Tradedollarnut has so eloquently stated before (and paraphrasing), I'd rather look at a coin with carbon and wonder how it survived so long without being molested, than look at a spotless coin and wonder how it might have been worked on.

 

Of course, I'm speaking of spots that are forgivable. It goes without saying that I'm not a fan of coins with gigantic, booger sized spots!

[Amazon-migration]

Looks like I might have won her. I've never used heritage before and I didn't know that you had to had to be verified before you could bid. I found this out with about a 1:30 before it ended. So I used their after auction buy it now feature. Supposedly I'll find out by Friday so I'll keep you guys posted.

 

OH, and I found bigger pictures of the coin from another auction when it didn't sell earlier: http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1102&Lot_No=276&src=pr

 

Any new opinions (good & bad and no sugar coating) with the new photos?

 

 

Once again, thanks for everyone's help!

[EZ_E]

It looks like a decent proof and the spots aren't too bothersome. Of course, I'd prefer none.

 

So, it all boils down to price. According to Heritage's price comparisons then this is a $2K+ coin. As a type collector, I wouldn't pay that. But if you need this specific proof for your collection then you have to make the decision. The coin certainly is no dog but it isn't PQ by any means for the grade, IMO.

[Amazon-migration]

Thanks for your comments EZ. I guess no sticker then Nope this isn't for a type set, I collect shield nickels.

[BankNote1]

Dip? I can't see any spots. Where are the spots? Am I looking for tiny carbon spots? If it is carbon spot or spots there isn't anything you can do about them. If the coin has just one or two I don't see a problem.

[BillJones]

When the grade gets to PR-67, the only spots should be the ones that can only be seen with a 10X glass. If I can see with my naked eye, it's a pass.

[MarkFeld]

I think you're looking for big trouble buying coins out of auctions on a sight-unseen basis. The odds are stacked extremely strongly against you when you acquire coins on that basis.

 

Either buy in non-auction settings with a full return privilege or, if applicable, have a qualified person (whose opinions you trust) inspect the auction coins for you in advance of the sale. I realize you didn't ask for my opinion, but that doesn't always stop me from giving it.

[Amazon-migration]

Mark,

 

How dare you write that to me when I come on here looking for....just kidding. I appreciate and welcome all comment good and bad. I agree with you 100%. I actually wasn't looking for a 1878. I was looking for a 1877 because the '78's are much more common to find. But when I was on heritage and I saw the coin, I liked it. If you asked me four days ago that I would have a 1878, let alone a PR67 I would told you "Ya right, that's going to be one of the last coins I'm going to buy for the series." While it would have been nice to see it in person or even know someone so that could do it for me, but I don't have that luxury. If worst comes to worst, I have a 3 day return policy but I would lose out 5% from the finial price. If I like her, I plan on keeping her for 80 years so it might command a premium since it's in one of those weird old "shoe box" versus the current NGC AIR Slabs(each coin is surrounded by it's own ecosystem and suspended in it's own gravity.

[EZ_E]

Good move, Amazon. I can tell that you're excited about the coin and that's what collecting is all about! (thumbs u

[MarkFeld]

Mark,

 

How dare you write that to me when I come on here looking for....just kidding. I appreciate and welcome all comment good and bad. I agree with you 100%. I actually wasn't looking for a 1878. I was looking for a 1877 because the '78's are much more common to find. But when I was on heritage and I saw the coin, I liked it. If you asked me four days ago that I would have a 1878, let alone a PR67 I would told you "Ya right, that's going to be one of the last coins I'm going to buy for the series." While it would have been nice to see it in person or even know someone so that could do it for me, but I don't have that luxury. If worst comes to worst, I have a 3 day return policy but I would lose out 5% from the finial price. If I like her, I plan on keeping her for 80 years so it might command a premium since it's in one of those weird old "shoe box" versus the current NGC AIR Slabs(each coin is surrounded by it's own ecosystem and suspended in it's own gravity.

You sound as if you have a great attitude (thumbs u Keep having fun.

[IGWT]

Congratulations on the purchase, and I hope you'll keep posting as you add coins to your proof Shield 5c collection. You've probably noticed -- but, if you haven't, I thought I'd mention -- that proof Shields (even 1877s) are readily available relative to many of their business strike counterparts. I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible (assuming adequate resources) to together pull a full set of gem or better in under a year. In other words, you can afford to be patient and picky; and, if you are, you'll likely find the better coins in your target grade(s) over a period of 10-15 years.

 

Please don't interpret these comments to mean anything with respect to the 1878 that you just bought. I really can't offer an opinion on that coin by the photos.

[skippy]

A full set of gem proof shield nickels is not that difficult to achieve given sufficient money.

 

The two stoppers are the 1867WR proof and the 1867 prototype reverse proof. It might take you 2-3 years to come up with those.

 

[Amazon-migration]

Thanks for the comments everyone, I appreciate them.

[Amazon-migration]

Sorry for not updating earlier but I've been busy and I've been trying to capture this coins as best as possible (but as you can see my photo skills are pretty crappy).

 

 

So I decided to keep her and so far I've looked at it every day!

 

I also got a little surprise too...

Looks like a repunched date S1-300 ,F-01, Breen 2509

 

The slab's pretty scratched up, so I'm probably going to send it to NGC to get reholdered and Photo Proofed. Or maybe I'll learn how to use my own dang camera.

[MikeInFL]

Congrats on your NEWP!

 

Like James, I don't mind spots on proof nickel coinage. That's just the way they come. Like Michael, and after viewing the second set of photos, the mirrors do concern me a bit at this grade -- but that could be the photo. Lastly, follow IGWT's advice -- he's dead on and knows this series as well as anyone I know.

 

I'm glad to hear you like it -- as in the end that's all that really matters. Take care...Mike