New One for ME ... 1942/1 is a counterfeit ???... Picture Posted NOW!

[jgrinz]

Message to me :

 

"Turns out that the 1942/1 is a counterfeit. How would you like me to handle that? Maybe I should contact the FBI or maybe you can tell me why you are selling counterfeit coins? Thanks, Accuratelygradedcoins"

 

This guy was a problem from the start ...

 

My Response :

 

"SIR,

First off DO NOT make accusations that are unfounded and untrue and unvarifiable at this time OR I will sue for liable.

It was purchased from a dealer a year or so ago so not much I can do at this point. Feel free to do as you must as I think I can find the person on the BB I bought it from ... but it will be a tough trail to follow, they can follow that sort of trail more than I could. Sorry this happened but make sure BEFORE you do anything have the coin certified by NCS/NGC/PCGS as being so before following through to the next step.

I had no knowlwdgw of this and can not help you in this at this time. If I get contacted by the authorities concerning this matter I can then devulge the information as to the purchase of the coin to them where the coin was purchased and they can follow it from there.I never had that certified as it was going into a dansco album.

With Regards,

Mike"

 

 

Comments ... Was I being too aggressive ... Did I proceeed in the proper manner This was part of a COMPLETE set of Mercury;s and coins easily exchangable in a Dansco so I will not return any money's.

 

Thoughts ??

 

 

 

 

[dooly]

You responded a lot more calmly than i would have..

[BankNote1]

Jgrinz, If the coin you sold was a counterfeit then YOU own him a refund! Also you can't sue if he tells people that you sold him a counterfeit and you did sell him one. It sounds like he could sue you.

[MunkyMan95]

Mike, if it turns out to be counterfeit, you owe him fair market value for the coin in the same grade, had it been genuine.

 

PS: What was your return policy on this coin?

[ant]

seller sold a fake! seller needs to refund for fake.

 

we have all baught coins we were unhappy with and returned them BEFORE sending to the top 3. if it is required to be sent to top 3 before return then it should state that.

 

also it sounds like a problem when the seller is the first to threaten to sue.

 

-"It was purchased from a dealer a year or so ago so not much I can do at this point"

 

*you could refund and chase down the person you baught it from. not buyers responsability to do so.

 

 

[ant]

i dont agree chad! i shouldnt have to spend the money on grading if i have been told by many people something is fake. i have shown many coins and when enough say it is fake, its fake.

 

we do that here all the time, i could find many posts where the word of the day was "return" it. we didnt tell the other person to send it in and waste there money we let them know before they wasted the money.

[TomB]

Actually, you were being a jerk, in my opinion. If you sold a counterfeit coin they you are responsible for the refund.

[jgrinz]

He is selling them raw ... so its his word against my word against mine and who he sold it too ... at this point.

 

I bought it ON THIS BOARD and the PICTURED coin was not even mentioned that it was even CLOSE to being a FAKE ...

 

Not to "entirely quote my response ... I even offered to pay for a third party opinion on this issue ..which he refuse to do even though I said I would pay for it.

 

He is a seller on OVERSTOCK.com and has had these issue before and is looking lor a scapegoat ... hence my offering to have it check by a THIRD party.

 

TomB you have just lost a little bit of respect from me for that comment.

 

With Regards,

 

 

 

[MunkyMan95]

TomB you have just lost a little bit of respect from me for that comment.

 

Why? You don't like the truth?

[WoodenJefferson]

Turns out that the 1942/1 is a counterfeit.

a.) How was this determined?

 

How would you like me to handle that?

b.) I would like some suggestions, if indeed the coin is bogus.

 

Maybe I should contact the FBI

c.) if this is not resolved to your satisfaction, this is an option

 

maybe you can tell me why you are selling counterfeit coins?

d.) at the time of this transaction, I was not aware of any alledged counterfeited coins being sold by me

 

 

 

Please address my return questions and we will proceed from there.

 

Best reguards

[TomB]

You asked for comments and I gave you an honest opinion. Heck, I even wrote that it was an opinion based upon the idea that you sold a counterfeit. If it is not the same coin, or if the current owner is wrong, then the liability is not applicable, but if it is the same coin and the current owner is correct then the comment holds. You don't have to have respect for me; I merely speak the truth.

[jgrinz]

TomB you have just lost a little bit of respect from me for that comment.

 

Why? You don't like the truth?

 

There is NO proof that the coin is not real that is the truth and I get lynched ...

go figure

 

I offered to pay for the truth and was refused to have it submitted to find out one way or another.

 

[MunkyMan95]

TomB you have just lost a little bit of respect from me for that comment.

 

Why? You don't like the truth?

 

There is NO proof that the coin is not real that is the truth and I get lynched ...

go figure

 

I offered to pay for the truth and was refused to have it submitted to find out one way or another.

 

Your comment is assinine and has no relation to the content of this message

 

 

Tom said that IF the coin was counterfeit, you owe him a refund. What part of that is wrong? YOU DO owe a refund if the coin is counterfeit.

[jgrinz]

Tom Called me JERK and that is totally uncalled for in this medium.

 

 

[MunkyMan95]

Tom Called me JERK and that is totally uncalled for in this medium.

 

 

Well, you also asked for what people thought, and I guess those were just his feelings.

[WoodenJefferson]

Tom Called me JERK and that is totally uncalled for in this medium.

 

 

<>

 

I took it as him not calling you a JERK to demeaner you personnally, it's that you portrayed being a jerk in your response...different context altogether.

[braddick]

I didn't know the 42/41 was counterfeited.

 

Are you sure it isn't simply an alteration?

 

If so, there would be a different set of "rules" to govern your accepting a return or not.

[TomB]

Tom Called me JERK and that is totally uncalled for in this medium.

 

 

<>

 

I took it as him not calling you a JERK to demeaner you personnally, it's that you portrayed being a jerk in your response...different context altogether.

WJ hit the nail on the head!

[jgrinz]

Turns out that the 1942/1 is a counterfeit.

a.) How was this determined?

 

How would you like me to handle that?

b.) I would like some suggestions, if indeed the coin is bogus.

 

Maybe I should contact the FBI

c.) if this is not resolved to your satisfaction, this is an option

 

maybe you can tell me why you are selling counterfeit coins?

d.) at the time of this transaction, I was not aware of any alledged counterfeited coins being sold by me

 

 

 

Please address my return questions and we will proceed from there.

 

Best reguards

 

Thank you Woody for actually taking an intellectual approach to this issue.

( WITH OUT taking the Lynch him approach )

 

1 - No Proof was given hence my SUGGESTIONG to get a third party opinion.

 

2 - I am giving no resolutions until the fact is established that the coin in question is in fact fake - I can verify also having HIGH resolution pictures of the coin that the coin in question is/or is not the coin I sold with the set.

 

3 - It is and Will have no problem pointing the finger to THIS BOARD member I purchased it from.

 

4 - It was purchased by me In GOOD faith from a Board member and by his reputation did not doubt the aucthenticicity of the coin in question.

 

 

[MarkFeld]

Certainly, the buyer could/should have iniated contact and communicated in a far less hostile fashion.

 

However, IF the coin is a counterfeit, the circumstances of how, where, when and from whom the coin was acquired are completely irrelevant. It also doesn't matter whether, based on images that were posted, anyone questioned the coin's authenticity.

 

What matters is whether the coin is counterfeit or genuine. The proper/fair thing to do is to get an expert opinion regarding authenticity. If the coin is deemed genuine, the buyer should pay the fee and if the coin is determined to be counterfeit, the seller should pay it and refund the buyer's purchase price.

[jgrinz]

Certainly, the buyer could/should have iniated contact and communicated in a far less hostile fashion.

 

However, IF the coin is a counterfeit, the circumstances of how, where, when and from whom the coin was acquired are completely irrelevant. It also doesn't matter whether, based on images that were posted, anyone questioned the coin's authenticity.

 

What matters is whether the coin is counterfeit or genuine. The proper/fair thing to do is to get an expert opinion regarding authenticity. If the coin is deemed genuine, the buyer should pay the fee and if the coin is determined to be counterfeit, the seller should pay it and refund the buyer's purchase price.

 

Praise JAH - Mark agreed with me for once. - The world is coming to and end ...The Sky Is falling ... Chicken little laid and golden egg ....

 

1 - I agreed which I have been known to retailiate in such manner

2 - I offered to pay the fee ( Seller ) and was refused - He did not give an explaination on why.

 

It has been said that an Altered coin has a difference recourse for settlement as does a FAKE coin ... is this true and what is its reamedy in each case ( For Personal Information )

 

Mike

 

 

 

[PerryHall]

If the buyer has removed the coin from the original holder, how can the seller be sure that the buyer didn't switch coins on him?

[jgrinz]

If the buyer has removed the coin from the original holder, how can the seller be sure that the buyer didn't switch coins on him?

 

Which brings on a Diffrent BAG OF worms .. This was a dansco album which Carried NO RETURN PRIVILEGE because of this fact with its easily changeable coins with in ... I DO however have a VERY GOOD CLOSE UP of the coin in question so lets see what he has got for ammunition if any.

Picture to follow and comments again on the picture its self ...

 

 

 

 

 

[jgrinz]

 

The original Auction

 

Auction

[harvey8542]

Mike I remember looking at this auction. I dont see anything that jump's out screaming fake. I also think you were a little harsh in your comments to him but totally understand seeing as you were basically called out as a crook. I would keep pressing the issue of having it looked at by NGC and request he send you pic's of the coin in question.

[TomB]

From the images provided the coin looks to be genuine. Unfortunately, there also appears to be a gouge on the obverse that might preclude certification. If so, perhaps the buyer has buyer's remorse after submission of the coin.

[MarkFeld]

Here's a PCGS certified example: see here

 

 

 

Part of the "2" in the date of the coin Mike sold/posted looks a bit odd, but everything else (including the extra tail of the "4" in the date) looks OK to me. My guess is that Mike's coin is legitimate.

[jgrinz]

The only note I got was seen above ...

 

My response is the ONLY one I will give offering to Verify the coin one way or another ...

 

I take large exeption to the response of some of the board memebers HERE WHO KNOW my credibility in the past and brought that to question. I have even OVER compensated buyers in the past finding I was in the wrong as my CRED is of utmost important to me and on these boards and on EBAY and always want to make things right.

 

Who I am and What I say being ascertained as being "jerk-like" I take offence to

and I think is reprehensible on TomB's part to say so. Yes he could have rephrased it differently ... did he make ammends to rephrase his comments No ...

 

I will rethink differently on his comments on ANY subject diffrently from now on, I will leave it at that

 

Regards

 

jg

 

 

 

 

[jgrinz]

From the images provided the coin looks to be genuine. Unfortunately, there also appears to be a gouge on the obverse that might preclude certification. If so, perhaps the buyer has buyer's remorse after submission of the coin.

 

The MERCURY COMPLETE set was bought for 100% resale and no certifications were going to be done as per his emails.

 

[ant]

in your first post i took it as you told him to get it graded. you didnt say you offered to pay for it. i am half and half with this. as the seller you are responsible for the CERTIFACATION being you stated the coin was genuine or didnt say it was copy as the seller. *BUT* if you indeed did tell the buyer you would pay and he turned it down then i am with you on not taking it back..