Was I being unreasonable? What would you do in this situation?

[stinkycheese1]

Today I went to the coin show in scottsdale with my friend dennis. There is a paticular dealer that that I consider my buddy/friend. I've bought from him in the past in which I bought a beautiful PCGS MS62 1904 $20 gold piece.

 

In the past also I've showed him my saint, which was in a PCGS holder at the time (MS 63) and he told me it was a great coin and offered to buy it for more than a MS63 grade. I still have it.

 

Today I was talking to him as usual, and he tells me that I should setup and start dealing coins and that I would be good at it. I thanked him and then noticed he had an 1804 eagle in his inventory. It was raw, not slabbed. I was awe-struck. Here's this coin worth thousands of dollars and I had the chance to be able to look at it. I had no idea on the price but he said its worth about $17,000

 

I asked him if I could see it and to my surprise, he said no. He said , "If you don't have the money to buy it then there's no need to show it to you"

 

I couldn't believe he said this. He wouldn't even take it out of the case to show me. Why?

 

Is this common for dealers to do ? Was this because it was a high priced coin?

Is this a sign of an unreputable dealer?

 

Whats your thoughts on this, and if you were in the dealers situation, what would you do?

 

 

[coinsarefun]

In my honest opinion.... he is NOT a friend and he is not even a good dealer

[coinman1794]

He sounds like many a disgruntled dealer, to me! This sort of thing happens to all of us from time to time.

[EZ_E]

Everybody is an individual and nobody is perfect. If you want to remain friends with him then you need to learn to overlook certain idiosyncrasies.

[stinkycheese1]

Very interesting responses. I think I agree with EZ-E. He seems like a good guy maybe he was having a bad day. I can understand that, since it's such a high price coin.

 

I would be interested to hear from MarkFeld on this one.

 

I thought I was overreacting.

 

[physics-fan3.14]

I can certainly understand his hesitation to let someone without a chance of affording it handle a raw coin worth tens of thousands of dollars. I don't know if it was in any sort of protection, but a coin worth that much can lose thousands of dollars in value if dropped by someone. I know that I would be very hesitant to let anyone touch coins of mine of that value, even if they were my best friend in the world.

 

On the other hand, some dealers are willing to let you handle rare coins. For instance, when I went to a show in Houston last fall, I was given an introductory lesson in Mexican federal coinage by a great guy there. I got to the show early, so there wasn't much activity yet and he wasn't busy. He was pulling all kinds of things out to let me hold, and his coup d'etat was a $20,000 coin. When he told me how much it was worth, I quickly handed it back because I did not want to be responsible for damaging something so valuable.

 

So, I certainly can't blame your dealer friend for not letting you hold that expensive coin. Some will, some won't. He might have put it more nicely, the way you describe it he might have been a little rude, but that's the way life goes.

[MarkFeld]

Today I went to the coin show in scottsdale with my friend dennis. There is a paticular dealer that that I consider my buddy/friend. I've bought from him in the past in which I bought a beautiful PCGS MS62 1904 $20 gold piece.

 

In the past also I've showed him my saint, which was in a PCGS holder at the time (MS 63) and he told me it was a great coin and offered to buy it for more than a MS63 grade. I still have it.

 

Today I was talking to him as usual, and he tells me that I should setup and start dealing coins and that I would be good at it. I thanked him and then noticed he had an 1804 eagle in his inventory. It was raw, not slabbed. I was awe-struck. Here's this coin worth thousands of dollars and I had the chance to be able to look at it. I had no idea on the price but he said its worth about $17,000

 

I asked him if I could see it and to my surprise, he said no. He said , "If you don't have the money to buy it then there's no need to show it to you"

 

I couldn't believe he said this. He wouldn't even take it out of the case to show me. Why?

 

Is this common for dealers to do ? Was this because it was a high priced coin?

Is this a sign of an unreputable dealer?

 

Whats your thoughts on this, and if you were in the dealers situation, what would you do?

 

Were you being "unreasonable" in asking to look at the coin? Not unless he was busy or you had mishandled uncertified coins of his previously. What would I do? If he was a dealer friend, I'd nicely let (edited for typo) him know I was surprised and disappointed that he wouldn't let me examine the coin. Then I'd ask if it was really just because I couldn't afford it.

 

Some dealers behave that way, but many others don't. The situation doesn't sound as if it has anything to do with whether he is a "reputable " dealer or not.

[michael]

Everybody is an individual and nobody is perfect. If you want to remain friends with him then you need to learn to overlook certain idiosyncrasies.

 

 

(thumbs u (thumbs u

[DC Dawg]

I don't remember which show I was attending when I saw that an auction house was offering a $4 Stella. I had read about the coin but had never seen one. While looking at the coin through the glass of the case, the gentleman behind the case asked if I wanted to see it up close. I told him I had never seen one, but I knew the coin was out of my price range. He did not mind and removed the slabbed coin from the case and handed it to me. He was very nice while we talked about the coin. He even told me what he could sell the coin for.

 

If a dealer is not busy, I have never had one deny my request to look at a coin in their cases. Sure, I had a few get a bit "gruff" with me, but as a native New Yorker, I can be gruff in return--of I will emphatically walk away. I will probably not visit that dealer again.

 

Scott

[ldhair]

I can see how a dealer at a show would have to limit the amount of time with any one customer, friend or not. I'm sure the dealer could have picked better words but possibly he just needed to get back to work.

 

 

 

 

[TomB]

I can imagine his refusal to be reasonable if he was busy at the moment, anticipated he might get busy soon because he noticed regular clients approaching, was having a bad day or was simply wary of taking out a raw coin of that cost for inspection. You were honest in your request that you wanted to examine the coin with no intention of buying it and he was honest in his answer in that if you were not a serious customer he would not take the coin out of the case.

 

Was the exchange between the two of you something that was expected based upon your history? Not likely. Does this single exchange mean he is a bad dealer, a bad person or someone not willing to help others? Not at all.

[Dcoin]

I don't even let my wife/kids/friends handle certain coins. It’s not for any other reason other than there is no reason for them to touch. Maybe he felt the same way; however he could have been a little more diplomatic about it.

[Prethen]

My gut reactions is...."That's not cool at all." In fact, I probably would have said those exact words to him. It's not like the Mona Lisa is in his private safe and he refuses to get a multi-million dollar work of art (or coin). Not cool. I would would even say "mean".

[MikeInFL]

While I might have handled the situation a bit more diplomatically, I can't fault the dealer for not letting you handle a five-figure raw coin. That said, I don't think you were being unreasonable in asking to see it....Mike

[CHABSENTIA]

If you went to a Car dealer and asked them if you could test drive a $20,000.00

or more automobile and the Salesperson told you "No because you don't have enough Money to purchase it" then what would you do? I would never go back to that Dealer.

 

How does the Coin Dealer know that you couldn't make some arrangement such as using the coin that he had offered more money earlier etc.? Not having the Money and not being able to afford it is too different things. If I had enough money to pay Cash for a $100,000.00 car but it would take my life savings then does that mean I don't have the Money to buy it?How does he know if you might change you mind after looking at the coin?

 

If this Dealer was Busy etc and you had a relationship then how about saying " I can't do it now but if you will come back later................?He is saying that he doesn't mind spending time on you for the lesser priced articles but you don't have what it takes to buy his more expensive merchandise.

[BillJones]

Way back in the 1960s when I was teenager, I did a lot of business with the coin counter at Gimbals Department store in Philadelphia. Yes, their prices were high, and yes, they tended to over grade coins. BUT they never sold me a counterfeit, and after a while the head of the department took me under his wing and led me to a grading guide (back then the Brown and Dunn grading guide) and what to look for with “problem coins.” At age 18 he offered me a job there.

 

He often would show me coins that he knew I could not afford to buy. The reason was that he wanted to expose me to coins I had not seen so that I could learn about them. AND in capitalist way, he probably figured that someday I would be able to buy them. That turned out to be true although I didn’t buy those coins at Gimbals. To put things in perspective it’s to a dealer’s advantage to show coins to INTERESTED young collectors and help to education them.

 

I don’t know the full circumstances here. If the dealer was busy, or it was the middle of the when he thought that he would be busy, I could see where he would be reluctant to leave a very expensive coin out when he might get distracted. There is also a high probably that the coin is a consignment item with which he needed to be especially careful. Still if he knows that you are responsible and honest, that might not be problem.

 

I’ll tell ONE line to really makes me angry, and that one is “I won’t show you that coin because YOU can’t afford it.” I’ve had that line dropped on me twice in 36 years of going to major coin shows. And in both cases the coins in question were pieces for which I could have written a check to pay for them if I had liked them.

 

First of all I dress neatly and cleanly when I go to shows. I don’t resemble a street bum at all, but I don’t wear a coat and tie either. Given that, how do YOU know what my bank balance is? How do YOU know what is in my collection? In short, that line is one of the dumbest things a dealer can say. And I can tell you as a dealer from first hand experience I’ve had a couple of very good customers who had “workman’s hands” and who were not English professors. Their knowledge, their honesty and their level of business far exceeded that of some guys with all the “trappings of wealth.”

 

It’s a cliché, but it’s true. “You can’t judge a book by its cover.” You can only really judge it by its content.

 

[WoodenJefferson]

To expound on Bills statement, my wife had an Uncle, Ambrose who was not exactly the best dresser in town, nor did he drive the best of vehicles. He drove an old work truck, dented, beat up, loud, but it got him back and forth and was utilitarian in nature only, not exactly for ecstatic value.

 

He landed a contract with the US Government to remodel those 235 homes, something like 75 of them and he suddenly found himself knee deep in cash flow.

 

He decided to up grade to the vehicle of his dreams, so he drove his rumbling truck to the Mercedes’ dealership, parked out front and wondered in holding a brown paper bag. The young spiffy well dressed salesman kind of ignored him when he first walked in the showroom, but approached him none the less, but with arrogance.

 

Ambrose asked about various cars in the range from $56K to $80K and the salesman looked at him with disbelief like his time was being wasted, so he fiend a phone call to excuse himself. Ambrose found himself standing alone next to this brand new grey Mercedes when another older salesman approached him to ask if he’d been helped.

 

He said he had a brief encounter with another salesman but indicated that he’d take this one. The other salesman immediately took him to the sales office and wrote him up and asked how he’d like to finance. Ambrose replied that he’d pay cash and opened up his brown paper bag and began stacking bundles of money on the desk.

 

Inside the brown paper bag, what apparently the other salesman thought might be Ambrose’s lunch, Ambrose had $5,000 dollar bundles of $100 bills. A nice commission ensued along with kudos from the owner of the dealership for a profitable quick turn around on a vehicle.

 

I’m sure that young arrogant sales person learned a valuable lesson that day and that is to never judge a book by it’s cover, you never know what’s going to be inside.

 

 

 

 

 

[CHABSENTIA]

That one line is what mostly ticks me off. I was a Manager in Retila when the Company went bust. I took a job for a Security outfit that sub contracted for the Jacksonville Sheriffs Office. We escorted/babysat Prisoners that either the Police arrested are were from the Jail or Prison farm for Medical treatment. I had them anywhere from Domestic Violence to Murder and all ages. It paid pretty good for the Security profession but it was only temporary.I also had my Military pension so things werent crucial.

 

 

 

I had purcased a 2000 square foot house a few years earlier.My daughter was in a High school and one day she had a girl friend come to the house with her. Her Parents had also visited once before. I had seen their house once before and it was about 1300 square feet. Both her Parents worked. My wife never had to work outside the home.

 

On this day the girl friend asked if she could ask me a question and I said sure. She asked me how much rent I paid for my house in this neighbor hood. This isn't a question that 16 year old girls normally ask and I am reasonably sure that her Parents either mentioned the fact as I was a Security guard or they asked her to ask me.. She looked really surprised when I told her that I owned the house.

 

People do tend to judge others by their occupations and other factors.My Parents are wealthy and live on the Water. Before they moved from California and were building their house and a Store they would go to the area and visit while they stayed on South Padre Island. One time they were there and met another couple and the other couple told them that they often came to the area also. One night they went driving in the area and when they drove by where they were building my Parents store the other couple said to them " There is the Store we are building here".

 

After they were established and my Father was the Mayor they introduced me to another Family while I was visiting. THey had a daughter and I asked her out,When I went to her house to pick her up there was another couple visiting her Parents. When the Parents introduced me they never used my name. They said " This is our Mayors son"

 

For some people these things are important as well as judging a book by its cover.

 

 

[WinstonWare]

"If you don't have the money to buy it then there's no need to show it to you"

 

I don't care for this sentence under any circumstances. If he was busy he could have said that. Maybe you weren't going to buy that coin but you may have bought some other coins if not that day perhaps another.

 

Maybe he just received some troubling news, maybe he was having a bad day, maybe there was some other reason for that statement but I wouldn't go out of my way to talk to that guy again.

 

All IMHO...

[ant]

i have seen lots of dealers with a do not touch ,but ill show you type of thing. most people i run into will pull the coin out and put it on a nice soft desplay thing and let you peep it on the counter. i dont know if i would want to have a new fish holding the coin but if i knew you and knew you where carefull with coins as a "friend" i would have set up a spot for viewing.

 

if they dont want to show a coin that could buy them a new car i would wonder about how much of a friend and a dealer this person is.

 

 

[harvey8542]

"If you don't have the money to buy it then there's no need to show it to you"

 

I don't care for this sentence under any circumstances. If he was busy he could have said that. Maybe you weren't going to buy that coin but you may have bought some other coins if not that day perhaps another.

 

Maybe he just received some troubling news, maybe he was having a bad day, maybe there was some other reason for that statement but I wouldn't go out of my way to talk to that guy again.

 

All IMHO...

 

(thumbs u

[James_OldeTowne]

This bozo is a flat-out jerk, or at least he was acting like one! Unless there were mitigating circumstances, he had no reason to behave that way.

[braddick]

This bozo is a flat-out jerk, or at least he was acting like one! Unless there were mitigating circumstances, he had no reason to behave that way.

 

 

[DJCoinz]

I can understand the dealer's actions, though it does sound like he was quite rude about it. Even if I was very good friends with someone I would be very hesitant to hand him a $17,000 coin that does not have a protective slab, especially if there's no chance of a sale.

[jgrinz]

My ONLY concern was that it was a RAW coin ... If we all donned the proper attire then I would have not had a Problem with him looking at it close up.

 

A SLAB is obviously a different senario altogether as it is already protected.

 

Monetary issues should NEVER have been uttered in this instance cause 'you never know' whos packing a 'wad' - Guy was a jerk to even say that, because word of mouth travelling in a venue that small will not do him a service in any way.

 

Those are the types where you like to flash a wad of 100's or the EXTRA SUPER Platinum BUSINESS CARD and say Never mind I saw another one over there ...

 

jerk

 

Sorry that happened to you STINKY ...

 

 

 

[Mozin]

Just an example of a coin dealer I would avoid. There are lots of decent dealers, so why get upset by spending time with such a person. I don't buy this mitigating circumstances business. If that was the case, he should have told you at the time.

[dooly]

(thumbs u i concur if its that good i would have to slab it then anyone could get close to its beauty

[stinkycheese1]

Wow, 3 pages already?

 

Thanks for the replies everyone. Next time I'll see him I'll tell him his little comment made me pretty upset and asked why he said that.

[Oldtrader3]

I think that the dealer was out of line saying what he did. However, I dropped a fairly valuble coin at the Long Beach show many years ago which I offered to buy. However, the dealer was angry and would not sell it to me even though I was willing to buy it. I haven't asked to handle a rare coin which was not slabbed that I did not intend to buy since.

 

I worked in a Cape Cod art gallery partime, when I was a teenager helping hang pictures, dusting and such. An elderly man came in and was ignored by the owner so I spoke with him for a few moments. The owner said that he "was not going to buy anything" after he left. Actually, this man was the founder of Appleton Electric and his daughter was married to one of the DuPonts and he was staying at the DuPont's, Oyster Harbors summer house.

 

Let it pass. I have had a salesman at Nordstrom's tell me once that I could not afford a pair of shoes when in fact, at that time in my life, I bought most of my clothes, my wife's and daughter's clothes at Nordstrom's. I just smiled at this salesman and walked away to find a more amiable salesman. Lost sale fool!

[CHABSENTIA]

I actually know a guy like this. He used to be a Lawyer but is retired now form that Business. He owns one of thise Companies that drop the Dumpsters in front of your house for such things as disposing of shingled during a re roof etc.

 

The guy lives in a Gated community and has more money than the 5 wealthiest people in there out together. I have never seen him dressed anything but casual but he is always neatly dressed. He drives a car that is about 12 years old and is from West Virgina and has a real thick drawl. Several years ago he loaned large Acres of Land to Jacksonville for some use and calls the Mayor whenever he feels like it.

 

 

You would never suspect it if you did not know the guy.