1839 Matron Head vs. Braided Hair Large Cents, Who's is What?

[WoodenJefferson]

The seller of the 1838 Coronet cent professed that his coin was a true GOBRECT (sp: Gobrecht) coin so it got me to thinking.

 

Thread started by dleonard-3 Link to 1838

 

From Auction:*NOTE TO ALL BIDDERS!!!! THIS IS A TRUE GOBRECT COIN AND I REQUEST THAT YOU CONTACT

A REPUTABLE COIN NUMATISIST BEFORE BIDDING!

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MATRON HEAD LARGE CENTS (1816-1839)

1839

3,128,661 (includes some 1839 Braided Hair varieties)

Includes "Silly Head" and "Booby Head" varieties; see also 1839 Braided Hair type

 

Designer: Robert Scot, modified by Christian Gobrecht.

The obverse of the one Braided Hair variety of this year was by Gobrecht.

 

 

 

BRAIDED HAIR LARGE CENTS (1839-1857)

Designer: Christian Gobrecht

1839

3,128,661 (includes some 1839 Matron Head varieties)

Only one 1839 variety (Newcomb 8) features the Braided Hair type.

 

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Question: Did Gobrecht have anything to do with the 1838 Large Cent coinage? Can someone explain the 1939 in simple terms where I can understand just went on here in 1839.

 

[RI AL]

OK, I'm going to sheepishly try to answer this one but Breen sort of skims over the 1838/Gobrecht connection in the large cents. As best as I can determine, Gobrecht took over as engraver because Kneass, the engraver in 1837, had this "wicked bad stroke" and was out of commission. Apparently, Gobrecht sharpened up the work of Kneass a bit.

 

Regarding the reverse, in 1837, Gobrecht designed a new hub on the "plain hair cord small letters" variety cent. This new reverse was used through early 1839. So there is the connection with Gobrecht and 1838 on the reverse.

 

The obverse, "2 obverses of 1837 (round end to bust) show still a different device punch, by Gobrecht, abondoned for unknown reason for the 'head of 1838' which uses a beaded hair cord." Breen makes no mention of these not being the work of Gobrecht.

 

Regarding the 1839 issues, and again I quote Breen, "The year 1839 was marked by no less than 4 different transitional heads until the mint director finally approved a fifth to continue into later years":

 

Head of 1836, plain hair cords,

Head of 1838, beaded hair cords (2 obverse dies),

The "Silly Head",

The "Booby Head" and

Type 5 was adopted and used in 1838 and subsequent years.

 

Since the 1839-1857 Braided Hair cents are also credited to Gobrecht, I can't see any reason why the design of the 1838's is without Gobrechts influence. All of this makes me wonder what is so remarkable about a "true 1838 Gobrecht cent" in the e-Bay listing.

 

RI AL

 

 

[WoodenJefferson]

By Jove I think I got it!

[Hoot]

The cents of 1835-1839 represent a number of transitional varieties. Those of 1816-1834 are the work of Scot, whose inferior design usurped that of Reich (1808-1814). In 1835, William Kneass began reworking nearly all coinage under the direction of Robert Maskell Patterson. Kneass is the designer of the "head of 1836," which was the dominant design, with and without beaded cords through 1838. The design made it on to only three varieties of 1839 (N1,2,3), of which N1 had plain cords (an overdate variety punched on an 1836 die), and N2 and N3 were beaded cords. In 1839, Gobrechet began fiddling with Kneass's design and produced three major subtypes: the silly head, booby head, and head of 1840 pieces. The "head of 1840" is the 1839 N8, often referred to as the "petite head" and is truly the unique signature coin of Gobrecht. This subtype of the coronet cent lasted until 1843. That year, Gobrecht produced a modified design, the so-called "mature head," which is inferior in beauty to his petite head varieties. This latter design lasted basically unmodified through the large cents of 1857.

 

Hoot

[WoodenJefferson]

Thanks for your input Hoot...I'm begining to grasp this era of coppers a bit more.