What happens to the value of a "cracked out" coin?

[MTHead-migration]

I own this 1909S VDB

 

What happens to it's value if I remove it from the slab?

[bajablu]

I would say down abit. Not much because the popularity and they seem to be bringing good money on ebay right now.

 

Its funny, you cant get a nice problem free circulated example for under $1K(or it seems anyway). Although you can get a gem red 65 for $5-6K.

 

 

[PerryHall]

This coin is very heavily counterfeited so the slab at least gives it a guarantee of authenticity.

[bajablu]

Very good point also. That is a big thing when Im buying a key date, or semi key date even. You cant be too careful nowadays.

[okbustchaser]

The value of the COIN stays the same. You do lose the value of the plastic premium which can be significant.

[ant]

if cracked i wouldnt buy! any key coin needs to be slabbed for me.

[WinstonWare]

You don't lose value you lose liquidity

[realone]

The coin is the coin, the problem is that since it is cracked out only you know that it was cracked out and therefore you are the only one knows that it was deemed authentic by the TPG. Of course there are diagnostics that anyone can use to verify but it is a lot quicker to see it in the holder and know that it was already checked and verified. So you just lose that extra checking process which results in losing liquidity are marketing ability.

[MikeInFL]

Depends on the coin and who you're selling it to.

 

Overall, I'd say cracking it out makes it lose value.

[TomB]

Winston wrote what I would have written in this case. The coin itself, if accurately graded, should be graded similarly by those knowledgable in the series, but the fact that a now heavily counterfeited and popular key date is raw would make the coin less liquid in the short-term.

[silvermonger-migration]

crack it! its easier to carry it in your pocket

[ant]

[MunkyMan95]

Since so many fake/added mintmark 09SVDB's are around, I would have to have the coin in a slab before I would purchase it.

[PerryHall]

You don't lose value you lose liquidity

 

Put a raw 1909 svdb cent and a slabbed 1909 svdb cent at the same grade in an auction. Both will sell (equal liquidity) yet the slabbed coin will usually get higher bids.

[okbustchaser]

You don't lose value you lose liquidity

 

Put a raw 1909 svdb cent and a slabbed 1909 svdb cent at the same grade in an auction. Both will sell (equal liquidity) yet the slabbed coin will usually get higher bids.

 

Thus the basis of my statement above.

[RGT]

You don't lose value you lose liquidity

 

Put a raw 1909 svdb cent and a slabbed 1909 svdb cent at the same grade in an auction. Both will sell (equal liquidity) yet the slabbed coin will usually get higher bids.

 

Put both of those same coins in a dealers case at the same price and see which one sells first. One will sell fast, the other will have to wait for a knowledgable confident buyer. Unequal liquidity.

 

 

[okbustchaser]

Put both of those coins in a dealers case one marked at the price of a raw coin and the slabbed coin 30 percent higher to pay for the plastic (and all that it guarantees). It is every bit as likely that a bargain hunter will buy the raw one before the slabbed one will sell to someone willing to pay the plastic premium. In that case the raw one is MORE liquid.

[Amazon-migration]

I'd say it does down because so many of those are counterfeited.

[zrlevin]

I have to say that for this particular coin, one that I am not very knowledgeable of, I would want to buy it slabbed and sell it slabbed, but while I owned it, I'd want it raw.

[RGT]

Put both of those coins in a dealers case one marked at the price of a raw coin and the slabbed coin 30 percent higher to pay for the plastic (and all that it guarantees). It is every bit as likely that a bargain hunter will buy the raw one before the slabbed one will sell to someone willing to pay the plastic premium. In that case the raw one is MORE liquid.

 

How many of your busties would you sell at a 30% discount because they don't have plastic around them?

 

We could come up with scenarios all day. Mark the slabbed one $500 and the raw one $1000 and now the slabbed one has lost value but is more liquid than the raw one.

[James_OldeTowne]

I did not vote.

 

This is the kind of a question that is much more subtle than people realize. The gut reaction is "the value goes down", but any number of eBay auctions show that very often, the value goes UP! It depends on peripheral issues.

 

If you take your nice 1909-S VDB, crack it out, and put into an album, and then build a complementary collection around it, and finally sell the whole thing as a set, it is virtually a rock-solid guarantee that the coin's value will rise substantially.

 

But you crack out an MS-70 coin - ANY MS-70 coin, and then try to sell it raw? Forget about it. The value goes down very much.

[okbustchaser]

How many of your busties would you sell at a 30% discount because they don't have plastic around them?

 

We could come up with scenarios all day. Mark the slabbed one $500 and the raw one $1000 and now the slabbed one has lost value but is more liquid than the raw one.

 

I wouldn't sell any of them at a 30% discount. If I were to sell any of my busties (all of which, incidentally, are raw) I would, however, realize less than if I had not cracked out the ones I did. This has nothing to do with discounting my price but is a result of not making the buyer also pay for an expensive hunk of plastic

 

 

Nor did I suggest selling the raw SVDB at a discount but instead, merely at the prevailing market price of a raw one vs the market price of one slabbed by PCGS.

 

In an efficient market both coins are equally liquid--albeit at different price levels.

[IGWT]

Say that a collector buys a coin raw out of a well-publicized auction as a PQ 64, paying $1,000, which is double the $500 that a typical 64 sells for and beyond where other informed bidders were willing to go

 

Suppose that the collector submits ithe coin to NGC, and the professional graders determine that the coin qualifies as a 64, to which the prevailing market guides assign a value of $500. In fact, the collector posts pictures of his newly graded coin, and receives unsolicited offers to purchase for that amount.

 

Now suppose that the collector resubmits the coin; and, this time around, NGC sees the coin as a 65. The delighted collector proudly posts his new coin & grade on these boards and soon receives unsolicited offers of about $2,500 for the coin (a price that's comparable to auction results for slabbed 65s) from the same collectors who who dropped out before the bidding reached $1,000.

 

What's the true value of the coin: $500, $1,000, $2,500 or something else? Does the certification by NGC add to or subtract from the value of the coin itself? On balance, is this good or bad for the hobby?

 

[jesbroken]

Doing a little research shows this coin in PCGS XF40 has sold on Heritage since January 2008 at about the same exact price $1207-1265(5 sales). While on Ebay many, many have sold ranging from $840-1450 in the last month or so. Very few above $1000-most below. I believe one would hurt their coins' value by removing it, but if for your own collection-what the heck. Do as you feel best. In the coin sets that I have I place an NGC/PCGS/ANACS coin size cardboard round with the TPG on it and keep the coins in the holders in a selected box. If ever one would sell the collection-this would be quite a bonus. JMHO

[physics-fan3.14]

Say that a collector buys a coin raw out of a well-publicized auction as a PQ 64, paying $1,000, which is double the $500 that a typical 64 sells for and beyond where other informed bidders were willing to go

 

Suppose that the collector submits ithe coin to NGC, and the professional graders determine that the coin qualifies as a 64 to which the prevailing market guides assign a value of $500. In fact, the collector posts pictures of his newly graded coin, and receives unsolicited offers to purchase for that amount.

 

Now suppose that the collector resubmits the coin; and, this time around, NGC sees the coin as a 65. The delighted collector proudly posts his new coin & grade on these boards and soon receives unsolicited offers of about $2,500 for the coin (a price that's comparable to auction results for slabbed 65s) from the same collectors who who dropped out before the bidding reached $1,000.

 

What's the true value of the coin: $500, $1,000, $2,500 or something else? Does the certification by NGC add to or subtract from the value of the coin itself? On balance, is this good or bad for the hobby?

 

:thumbsup: Post of the Day.

[okbustchaser]

Say that a collector buys a coin raw out of a well-publicized auction as a PQ 64, paying $1,000, which is double the $500 that a typical 64 sells for and beyond where other informed bidders were willing to go

 

Suppose that the collector submits ithe coin to NGC, and the professional graders determine that the coin qualifies as a 64 to which the prevailing market guides assign a value of $500. In fact, the collector posts pictures of his newly graded coin, and receives unsolicited offers to purchase for that amount.

 

Now suppose that the collector resubmits the coin; and, this time around, NGC sees the coin as a 65. The delighted collector proudly posts his new coin & grade on these boards and soon receives unsolicited offers of about $2,500 for the coin (a price that's comparable to auction results for slabbed 65s) from the same collectors who who dropped out before the bidding reached $1,000.

 

What's the true value of the coin: $500, $1,000, $2,500 or something else? Does the certification by NGC add to or subtract from the value of the coin itself? On balance, is this good or bad for the hobby?

 

The value of the coin IMO is somewhere between 950.00 (underbidder at the auction) and the 1000 dollar winning bid...plus the buyer's fee of course. Call it $1100.

 

The other offers represent either a plastic penalty or a plastic premium. Either way the coin is what it is...the lower or higher amounts are for the right or wrong lable not for the coin. A very expensive piece of plastic.

[Conder101]

It depends on who is looking at the coin.

 

If it is a knowledgeable collector who knows his series and who needs that coin, nothing happens to the value.

 

It it is a dealer who is looking to buy it for stock he knows what it is but it loses some value because, unslabbed it will be a slower moving item, or he will have to pay to get it slabbed in which case he has an extra expense and his money is tied up for a longer period before he can offer it for sale.

 

If it is a collector/investor who depends on the TPG's to do his thinking for him and who fears buying anything that doesn't have their blessing, then it goes down a lot.

[coinman1794]

The value of the coin remains constant. The price of coin-in-slab changes according to what the slab reads, because you are paying for the plastic.

 

 

[JRocco]

There have been a lot of really good replies to this post. I am thrilled to see that there are so many people that do not wear those rose colored glasses.

The plastic changes a lot of things, but please remember --it does not change the coin.

[silvermonger-migration]

like a big echo chamber in this forum