Opnions on a early large cent

[dooly]

Hi all simple question what do you think of this coin. Grade ect ?

 

 

dooly

[DC Dawg]

 

F-12

[PerryHall]

Lots of detail but very porous. Looks XF40.

[EZ_E]

Lots of detail but very porous. Looks XF40.

 

And recolored. It would body bag from the services but it is still a nice coin, IMO.

[BillJones]

It has EF sharpness, but dark, corroded and porous. I think that EAC collectors would net grade it to Fine-15 or it would be "EF, scudzy."

 

The coin is OK for a lower level set, although many advanced collectors would prefer better surfaces in exchange for less detail.

 

[James_OldeTowne]

I would go with "VF details, corroded".

 

An overall commercial grade could still be above VF, but for an EAC grade, I'd guess F-12.

[Dan Marinelli]

Dooly,

 

I don't know about grading, but I just got my Noyes book from Charles Davis, with which I can attribute this as an S-166. The large die crack on reverse indicates this. It is called the "WHISKER VARIETY/ARC CRACK, E TO FINAL O".

 

It is a rarity 1 (Over 2000 estimated). This makes me with my limited math skills declare that this coin is rarer than the 1909-svdb and you should keep it, especially if bought at a good price. I have no idea what that price would be, however.

 

Dan

[dooly]

Dooly,

 

I don't know about grading, but I just got my Noyes book from Charles Davis, with which I can attribute this as an S-166. The large die crack on reverse indicates this. It is called the "WHISKER VARIETY/ARC CRACK, E TO FINAL O".

 

It is a rarity 1 (Over 2000 estimated). This makes me with my limited math skills declare that this coin is rarer than the 1909-svdb and you should keep it, especially if bought at a good price. I have no idea what that price would be, however.

 

Dan

 

Great information Dan the seller wants over $300 for it !!!!

[BillJones]

Great information Dan the seller wants over $300 for it !!!!

 

There is a big price difference between Fine and VF for this coin. It looks like he's trying to get a bit more than Fine money for the coin, which is more than "all the money" given the color and surfaces.

 

On the other hand, some people get sweaty palms when they see a U.S, coin dated 179X. Still I think that price is rather high.

[1798CentCollector-migratio]

The coin has XF 40 detail with light even corrosion or surface granularity-possibly cleaned and recolored at some time. I'd grade it a 40 plus for details and net it to 15 plus for the dark color and surface problems. It's an Average Minus or Scudzy coin depending on how badly the problems affect you - but definitely not up to being an average coin. The good thing is that the surfaces, except for the porosity, appear to be free of any significant marks. At an R1 The S-166 is one of the comonest varieties of 1798's, so you won't have much of a problem finding one with better surfaces if this bothers you. I don't have the current CQR in front of me, but the price is probably not entirely unreasonable. Too bad about the surfaces as this coin has great details. Personally, I'd rather have an average plus coin with nice color and hard surfaces. It depends on what you like - you won't get the detail of this coin at anywheres near an equal price. The cost is in the lower quality surfaces.

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

$300 sounds like solid retail money for the coin. I do not think it outrageous at all.

[jesbroken]

Dooly,

Here are a couple of 1798's slabbed by PCGS. The first is graded VG8 and the second is F12. They both seem to be even more pitted or porous than yours but still slabbed. I think you have a keeper there if it is yours. Great year, by the way, even with 1.8M plus minted. It appears yours is a Style 2 Hair, while the most common is still more attractive than the Style 1 hair(JMO). I also like the die crack on the reverse-gives it much character.

 

 

[EZ_E]

Those two should never have been holdered. Way too many problems. They must be old slabs 'cause PCGS wouldn't let them slide today. They are very tough on early copper. NGC is a tad bit easier on them.

[BillJones]

Those two should never have been holdered. Way too many problems. They must be old slabs 'cause PCGS wouldn't let them slide today. They are very tough on early copper. NGC is a tad bit easier on them.

 

Ditto!!!!

 

It really POs me to see that. I got body bags for these to coins! The TPGs don't known how to grade early copper PERIOD!!!

 

 

[Just Bob]

. I got body bags for these to coins! The TPGs don't known how to grade early copper PERIOD!!!

 

 

Was it because of the color?

[EZ_E]

Bill, your cents are too perfect and shouldn't exist so obviously they've been tampered with. You'd be much happier if you'd drive over them a few times, stomp up and down on them and then maybe take a leak on them. Now, you're guaranteed of a slab.

 

Your 1797 half cent is literally one of the most beautiful US coins of all denominations that I have ever seen! WoW.

[EZ_E]

. I got body bags for these to coins! The TPGs don't known how to grade early copper PERIOD!!!

 

 

Was it because of the color?

 

It was partly because of the color but mainly because of the sheen. If it was dulled up some then it would have slabbed, IMO.

[1798CentCollector-migratio]

The two '98s that jesbroken pictured are photos of the S-147 and S-146, from the recent Walt Husak Sale in February. Yes, PCGS slabbed both of these and others from Walt's Collection .... but guess why. Quite a few of Walt's coins with some surface problems (primarily porosity or corrosion) were slabbed by PCGS. A few ended up in ANACS holders and it seemed (from my recollection) that a good deal of these were cleaned or recolored pieces. Heritage also offered their own and the Noyes EAC grades side by side with the PCGS grades and, interestingly, the grades assigned by PCGS for many of the "problem" coins were, in fact, close to if not right on with EAC net grades and Noyes net grades. PCGS graded the S-147 (first picture) a F12. Noyes graded it a 15 net 10. The S-146 (second photo) was graded VG10 by PCGS and The EAC grade assigned by Borckardt was an 8. Both the S-146 and S-147 have some surface problems and under "normal" circumstances would not have passed the muster. One thing about the problem coins that were slabbed by PCGS ... they were high rarity coins that don't come nice - usually in low grades with problems, hence the compromise IMO - not to mention they all were a part of the Husak Collection. I had no problem seeing these in PCGS holders, as I cracked my purchases out as soon as I got home.

[MikeInFL]

Hi all simple question what do you think of this coin. Grade ect ?

 

I'd grade the coin VF details, and net it down to F or VG money for recoloring/corrosion. Not a bad coin, but you can do better....Mike

[dooly]

Well this has been an interesting post but i just dont know what to do !! guess that means i can live without it >. well maby!!!!!!!

[gpnyc]

I have nothing to add except that the S-166 attribution is correct. I know b/c I happen to have one. This one is in an NGC 25 holder:

 

[1798CentCollector-migratio]

Nice looking S-166 gpnyc....based on the photo, NGC was pretty close on the EAC grade also. Looks to have 25+ detail possibly net 20+.

 

For dooly's information, a F15 Average Minus S-166 is listed in CQR at $300, A Scudzy F15 at $100.

[dooly]

 

 

dooly

 

Cheers for all the great information all ! i have decided to "let it lie" even though i like the coin .. now if it had been in the $200 range i would have had it for my dansco 7070

 

cheers

[BillJones]

Both the S-146 and S-147 have some surface problems and under "normal" circumstances would not have passed the muster.

 

In the world of PCGS, some pigs are more equal that other pigs. This is not the first time I've seen them grade stuff on the basis on who the submitter was, NOT what they submitted.

 

 

Heritage also offered their own and the Noyes EAC grades side by side with the PCGS grades and, interestingly, the grades assigned by PCGS for many of the "problem" coins were, in fact, close to if not right on with EAC net grades and Noyes net grades.

 

"In the beginning" PCGS said that they would not net grade coins for problems. Instead such pieces were supposed to get body bags. So much for PCGS policy.