Comparing Money Spent VS. Numismedia Value...

[BULLY]

 

Actually, I think it's critical that you (and any collector) track your investment vs. "fair market value" for insurance purposes, assuming that you have your collection insured.

 

Knowing what you have is critical for insurance in the event of a loss, and some sort of reliable resource for a Fair Market Value (FMV) is essential to use to estimate a "replacement cost" for insurance purposes.

 

There are actually some coin database programs that I've seen advertised in The Numismatist (the ANA member magazine) which you can use to track your coin collection inventory and its value, and supposedly able to download updates for new coins and values. I've not tried them, but they look pretty cool.

 

Some people use a pen and paper.

 

Some people use an Excel or other spreadsheet software.

 

Personally, I use a Microsoft Access database. I made a "GUI" (graphic user interface) interface for myself to enter the data as I go along so it's easy to use. I can then extract the entries into an Excel spreadsheet for manipulation, as well as run some quick, simple reports like purchase price, replacement cost, and so on.

 

I use fields such as these:

 

1. Item number (generated by the database as I enter each coin)

2. Year issued (so when I print, I can sort by year, eliminate any duplicates if I made a data entry error, or find when I have several of a coin if I want to sell one)

3. Composition: I made this a DROP DOWN MENU so it fills in with little typing (gold bullion, gold-other, silver bullion, coin silver, silver 40%, sterling silver, clad, multi, etc.)

4. Item name ( this is where I enter a BRIEF description of the item), such as 2008 Silver American Eagle.

5. Description (this is where I enter a DETAILED description of the item, for insurance and other uses) such as 2008 Silver American Eagle, graded MS69 by NGC, "Early Releases" Pedigree, Serial Number 123456-789.

6. Purchase price: obvious - though I generally include S&H if I bought it already slabbed, or grading if I paid to have it graded. (or both sometimes). Sometimes this isn't practical, so you do the best you can - receipts are ALWAYS good for insurance purposes! Scan then, save them, put them (or a CD with images of them) in a fireproof safe, safe deposit box, whatever!

7. Replacement Value: Decide on a primary source of information for replacement value/fair market value. Some may use Numismedia. Some prefer the PCGS Price Guide. Some use the Red Book. With gold/silver prices fluctuating, the online guides may be a better choice for precious metals/bullion issues at least, compared to the Red Book. Sometimes, you may need to reference any combination of the sources, if information is not available for your coin(s) in any particular source. The important thing is to have an estimate.

8. Location: I made this another drop down menu. (Is this in your Safe Deposit Box at Bank of America, First National Bank of [Fill in the Blank], your office safe, you get the idea).

 

If you aren't already insuring your coins, keep in mind that many homeowners policies will limit the loss/coverage on collections such as valuable coins, often to $200-$500. Therefore, you may want to verify coverage with your agent or insurance company.

 

Further, I have another posting out there on this already, but it bears repeating. Adding coverage for coin collections to homeowners policies is often VERY expensive, worth an inquiry, but you may find it cost prohibitive. The reality is that most home insurers are not coin experts, and thus their rates are exorbitant.

 

The American Numismatic Association (ANA) has an arrangement for its members to purchase coin collection insurance coverage policies through the Hugh Wood Agency, underwritten by AXA, a strong carrier. You must be an ANA member to be eligible, and I found them to be SIGNIFICANTLY less expensive than insuring through my homeowners. They also don't require a "schedule" of every coin you own to insure you, though keep in mind that inventory lists would be requires in the event of a loss. They only require that you schedule any individual items valued over a certain amount, I want to say $10,000 - but check with them to be sure. You can link to them through the ANA web site at www.money.org

 

Lastly, remember that coins in safe deposit boxes are NOT insured by the bank nor by your homeowners policy. The policies you can obtain through the ANA (Hugh Wood/AXA) can cover coins in your home and/or in safe deposit boxes.

Before you decide that safe deposit boxes are secure and don't require insurance, think: New Orleans, Mississippi, and Alabama after Rita and Katrina. What if your coins were in a safe deposit box in one of the banks that was under water for days, weeks or months? The fires in California, could they burn down your bank? Could it, in fact, be robbed? All rare, perhaps, but possible. This is why rates are lower to insure safe deposit boxes, and worthy of research for protection of valued collections. Policies also exist to insure collections at home, in safe deposit boxes, or a combination.

 

Also of note when selecting safe deposit boxes: Where is it? Is it in a basement location that may be damp that could harm my collection? Is it climate controlled?

 

There was also a story in the most recent issue of "The Numismatist" about two older collectors who had stored their childhood collections at their parents' home. One's father was robbed at gunpoint, and a treasured collection was gone forever. Therefore, home security is also something to consider.

 

Read facts about "Why do I need a safe?" if you consider storing your collection at home: http://www.libertysafe.com/homesecurity.lasso?page=2

There are local distributors of this safe company (Costco even carries some!) and the insurer knows and recognizes their security.

They can also help protect your collection from the environment (moisture, light).

 

I know it seems like I got off on a rant here, but I feel very strongly about security. I was channel surfing and heard a woman call QVC to order some piece of jewelry, and mentioned to the host that her home was robbed a couple weeks before Christmas and ALL her jewelry was stolen, so she was starting over. How would any of us feel if that happened to our treasured coin collections?

 

[PerryHall]

I've seen this written before, what does the "PQ" reference mean to the coins?

 

 

PQ = Premium Quality or a particularly nice coin for the grade.

[BULLY]

I mentioned earlier that I had all... the Mint sets from 1970., Even at $6.00 each for grading I have two choices.

 

1. Take a year where I could be assured of getting a good return over all while breaking up the continuity.

2. Break up the set/s and grade individual coins again breaking up the contunity of the sets.

 

Another problem is that some of these are in while envelopes and cellophane containers etc and are thirty years old. The envelopes are falling apart or have little tears etc so there will eventully be a need for other envelopes etc to protect the sealed coins inside as some are not economically feasible to pay for grading.

 

To Chabsentia: If you have the MINT SETS from 1970, you may have a treasure! Assuming you have the Large Date variety, the PCGS price guide show the mint set value at a mere $20. As you were surmising, the sets may be worth more "for parts." In particular, the 1970-D Kennedy Half Dollar.

 

1. It's Silver-Clad.

2. It was ONLY available in the mint sets.

3. There were a mere 2,150,000 issued - one of the lower Kennedy population issues!

4. If you were lucky enough to get a MS65 out of it, the PCGS price guide shows a 1970-D MS65 Kennedy Half at $75. Even if you get MS64, $32 -- more than the value of the set.

5. If you've got any decent looking coins in the set, they could be worthwhile for grading, depending, but the "D" Kennedy could pay for it right there.

 

[BULLY]

I've seen this written before, what does the "PQ" reference mean to the coins?

 

 

PQ = Premium Quality or a particularly nice coin for the grade.

 

 

First: Thank you -- this has been driving me crazy! I had a seller on eBay who didn't answer me, twice, so I just didn't bid on his auctions, now don't I feel foolish!

 

Good gravy Marie! PQ = Premium Quality.

 

I am flashing back to the 80s and 90s with VCRs when "HQ" = High Quality.

 

That's our flashback moment for the morning.

 

 

[CHABSENTIA]

Actually I have two of them.Funny that you should mention this but I heard a guy on one of those coin shows talking about a 70 D in MS67.

 

 

I had mentioned earlier that I had cleaned out a safe deposit box as I had a bigger one in a closer Bank that would take everything as I had slabbed all my Proof American eagles and $5.00 A.G.E.

 

I found a Kennedy Album that I had forgotten about with all Raw Mint and Proof Kennedys.

 

 

So I have a 1970D in the Album and a 1970D in the Mint set.I also have the Proof sets from 1968 with some being Silver. I don't have the 1999 Silver but several in the 90s and all the regular from 1968 and all the State Quarters from 1999 in both regular and Silver.

 

 

Somebody else here mentioned the 1971 S Proof Set and a few in there. Right now I am finishing up two sets of Morgan Dollars at one per year.I ran into a Registry thing. I sent in a Raw 1880S VAM 11 to be slabbed and it came as an MS64 VAM 11.I noticed that if I put it in the Regular Registry it was 135 points but in the Hot 50 it was 272 and figured it was a mistake but NGC says it wasn't nad it gets more points in the HOT 50 to showcase more the VAM so I might start a few there.

 

 

I haven't decided whether to send in both 1970Ds or not. I would think that the one in OGP would be more protected than the one in the Dansco and in better condition. The one in the album looks good to the naked eye. . I had to get it in the late 70s.

 

So to break up the Mint sets or not. Some are in the original white envelopes which are falling apart. I am going to go through the pricing guides like Numismedia and Coin World trends and see which issues are worthe teh grading fees.

 

I also picked up several tubes of pennies from that S.D.B. I went through them and found a well circulated 1919 and two 1936 that look in real good shape but aren't that shiny color. THey are like a deep brown. I have several tubes in the 1940s that are the same color as well as 1950s. Nothing like a 1955 double die etc. I have about 50 in the 1960s that are real shiny.

 

I scanned a few in the Red Book and they look to be about $2.00 etc so it would not be worth the grading fees unless I am not aware of something. Also have a 1862 Cent in the Mix and it seems to be pretty common as far as being worth anything.

 

Looks like the best bet is the Kennedys and maybe the Sacs. Don't know about the Ikes.Looks like a lot to absorb.

 

 

Thanks for the Info.

[TomB]

It's an excellent idea to track your purchase price, date of acquisition, source, coin details and certification number (if applicable) for all your numismatic purchases as well as to keep receipts, when available, and even have images linked to the data. It's even better to have this information backed up on storage media that is not on your hard drive, such as on a flash key or zip disk and to keep a copy of this information in a secure area such as a safe deposit box. Lastly, it is wise to have full insurance to cover any loss that you are not comfortable absorbing out of pocket.

 

The excersize that CoinCurious undertook is quite interesting and "fun" when viewed in the reality that no profits are actually made until a coin is sold. As others have mentioned, the modern coin market can be quite thin, but this can also be the case for some of the esoteric, classic, niche markets that some of us participate in, too. To protect our investments we should always attempt to buy nice coins for the grade, to buy coins with good eye appeal and to periordically sell coins in order to learn more about the market. Truly, one can be buried just as deeply and easily in classic coinage as one can be in modern coinage.

[BULLY]

CC,

 

There is a difference between NGC and PCGS regarding MS70 and PF70 grades for contemporary coins. NGC is more liberal, and the market prices of NGC 70 coins reflect this (i.e., tend to be lower). Dealers in modern U.S. coins and collectors (beyond the rank novice level) are aware of this. Be careful, and remember that you haven't made a dime yet.

As I said, the market for these so-called 'perfect' contemporary coins is thin---it's easy to find sellers, not so easy to find people who want to buy these kinds of coins.

 

 

I couldn't disagree more. I think the perceived difference between NGC 70 and PCGS 70 graded coins is really a matter of personal preference.

 

You will read articles published on eBay regarding this, and "experts" will portray PCGS as dominant in the field, and NGC as more lenient, thus PCGS coins command a greater price. What evidence, however, is presented? You will also notice that those people SELL PCGS graded coins, so do they have a vested interest in steering buyers toward them and inflating the notion that they are, somehow, superior? One must question the objectivity and the source accordingly.

 

You will read articles that say NGC is superior, and that PCGS is not. Again, where is the evidence? Well, in this case, I can at least say that NGC is the official grading service of the American Numismatic Association (ANA) and the Professional Numismatists Guild (PNG). Further, the ANA only recently renewed that designation for NGC, so they carefully examined NGC's and PCGS' role in the marketplace, and their standards. Therefore, one must consider what weight the ANA's endorsement carries, along with that of the PNG.

 

I would argue that both NGC and PCGS are "top-tier" and highly respected companies. I have not seen instances of either company handing out "70" coins haphazardly. I've seen coins from PCGS that were graded 70 that would not cross to NGC, and I've seen the same in reverse. So, anecdotal evidence will abound I am sure. Are there cold hard statistics widely available? Unlikely. Anyone who claims to offer such claims should be provide hard evidence (other than "99% of my submissions do this").

 

Further, I think that market prices for some coins, graded by NGC or PCGS, are driven by personal BUYER preference for coins graded by one service or the other, as well as by misconceptions which are perpetuated as previously described.

 

As another sign of integrity, there was a suit over "First Strike" designation coins. NGC has issued a full statement about its position on First Strike coins, and how it essentially can not determine which coins are struck first - very true. Therefore, it discontinued the designation. Meanwhile, PCGS not only continues the First Strike designation, but has expanded it far beyond bullion coins. To me, this is a symbol of NGC's integrity in the marketplace. Some will argue that it was brought on by a lawsuit. No doubt. However, why has PCGS not followed suit, if it is such a market leader? Are continued "First Strike" coins from PCGS not flooding the marketplace with misguided and inaccurate, unverifiable certification of a perceived status, and inflating prices along with it?

[CoinCurious]

Someone had mentioned that they keep a list of their coins at Heritagecoins.com. So i checked it out, so far I have listed about a 1/4 of my certified coins in their My collection area. If what I mentioned seems fun and you havent tried Heritagecoins.com you really should. You are able to include your purchase price, and purchase date. It gives you an average estimate of your coins value and also gives you an icon which will list the amount others have actually paid for a similar coin on Heritagecoins auctions. Great site. It will give you a much better estimate of a coins actual current worth. And if you disagree just click on the icon and check out recent sales. Lots of fun. I hope to have all my coins listed on the site by the end of next week.

[Houston Investor]

I keep an excel inventory listing by cost, CDN Bid (if exact match), and retail which could be PCGS, Coin World Value Trends, or CDN Bid x a percentage (based on excel analysis of dealer ads to calculate marketplace dealer markup). I have no use for numismedia. I also list bullion weight which may be used in valuation calculations for bullion coins - BV x distributor premium (from USM) x my markup.