Comparing Money Spent VS. Numismedia Value...

[CoinCurious]

Today I started to include the amount of money I have invested in each coin I have in my registry. This includes shipping, certification ect. Every cent that I have in each coin. After I finish this I plan to start adding photos. After going through my paper work (geez I keep lists of everything, just wish i was more organized), I finished listing the amount of money invested into my Partial Modern Commemorative Half Collection.

The Numismedia Value of the 10 coins I have in this set is $906.25 VS. the money I have invested $206.75. Yep thats me giving myself a hand. Although I believe the Numismedia Value to be about 30% to high (so if you are doing the math it would work out to $634.38 my estimate of actual value). I'm doing a hell of a job. Cant wait to see how the rest of my collection goes.

 

Does anyone else do this kind of stuff with their collection?

[jgrinz]

I only keep track like that for resale items so I can figure out my margin.

My Own collection nope .. I like it I want it I get it

 

[Revenant]

Several of my coins are newer (2005+) or they have sufficiently small populations that numismedia doesn't give a price for them.

[Arizonadesertrat]

I keep a ledger with all purchasing information (for tax purposes) and the receipts, and I recommend that all coin collectors do something like this. However, I don't track my expenditures vs. entries in price guides because, for older solid-PQ-for-grade coins, this is pointless (as the entries are usually way off from current market values).

 

Don't assume that the Numismedia Values entries represent what your modern commems are "worth"---the market for these is thin (and most dealers that I do business with are not interested in stocking them).

[Just Bob]

I also keep a ledger of all of my purchases, plus my Roosevelts are lised in "My Collection"

on the Heritage website. It allows you to enter the cert# and purchase price, date, etc.and gives the wholesale value for each coin.

[just-john]

$206.75 is what you invested. $634.38 my <>of actual value .

"assumed"/estimate ?? When you sell them then you have the actual value

[physics-fan3.14]

I have $516 in my Franklin collection, versus a Numismedia of $770. So according to your estimate of about 30% back, I am just about spot on.

[michael]

 

Does anyone else do this kind of stuff with their collection?

 

no.........................................

 

you got some expensive pieces of plastic there young man

 

sell them for 900.00+ raw and you will make your point in fact sell the coins raw for $300 and you will have made your point

[MikeInFL]

CC,

 

While I respect your and other's right to collect how you see fit, I believe the best collections would tend to be more expensive than the Numismedia value not less, so I'm not so sure that being "back" of Numismedia is necessarily a good thing. I'm truly sorry if this is raining on your parade, but that's how I feel.

 

That said, my sense is that Numismedia values are more inflated for moderns, so this could also be a factor in your calculation. I don't follow modern commemoratives at all, so I'm not sure just what effect this has had on the numbers.

 

Personally, I try not to focus on price guides, Numismedia or otherwise, and instead focus on the coins (and to a lesser extent the prices they fetch in an open market). I'd like to think that this has led me to a nice collection, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I'll know that for sure when and if I ever sell a significant enough portion of my collection to draw a conclusion....Mike

[James_OldeTowne]

I do keep track of the cost of each coin I buy. But the "numismedia" values mean nothing to me.

[CoinCurious]

[no.........................................

 

you got some expensive pieces of plastic there young man

 

sell them for 900.00+ raw and you will make your point in fact sell the coins raw for $300 and you will have made your point]

 

 

 

Hmm, Im slightly confused. What point did I not make? I pointed out that the Numismedia value on modern commemoratives is over valued. This is True. I pointed out that I have $206.75 invested in the 10 coins and that I can sell the coins for more than I invested in them. This is also True. As far as the coins being raw, that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

 

Would these 10 coins return a profit if they were not slabbed? Probably not much if any at all. But these coins are slabbed (and whether you collect plastic or not) it does effect the amount of money I can sale these coins for. Just a simple fact.

[okbustchaser]

]Would these 10 coins return a profit if they were not slabbed? Probably not much if any at all. But these coins are slabbed (and whether you collect plastic or not) it does effect the amount of money I can sale these coins for. Just a simple fact.

 

Exactly what Michael was trying to point out. Your coins haven't increased in value--you merely placed them in some plastic slabs which have increased in value over what you paid for the plastic.

 

[EZ_E]

Yeah, it gives a person warm, fuzzy feelings to know he has made a good deal. However, the true test comes (as mentioned) when one goes to sell one's coins.

 

Numismedia is all over the charts, in my experience. Some of my NGC registry coins are given realistic and comparable values. Some are ridiculously low and some (mostly moderns) are grossly overpriced.

 

IMO, one really has to be active and on top of the market to know the latest coin values. One way to do so is to search for comparable listings for a specific grade and investigate the recent auction prices on e-bay and auction houses. Another price guide is looking to see how much dealers are selling a specific coin for.

 

But keep in mind, PQ-Killer coins will often go for double bid or more. Early type coin prices in the guides assume that there is some sort of problem with the coin. Therefore, you can pretty much assume that you will pay at least double price guide for a NGC/PCGS slabbed early coin.

 

That's just the way it is. Kind of keeps a person on their toes, though. Doesn't it?

 

Victor

[CoinCurious]

Two of the moderns in my half collection were coins that I had in original government packaging. They looked incredible so I sent them in to NGC. One was a 1992-D COLUMBUS 50C, MINT STATE & the other was a 2003-P FIRST FLIGHT 50C, PROOF they both graded 70. Including the purchase of the coins, the grading fees, and all the insurance and shipping fees I have $56.00 invested in the 2 coins. I dont plan on selling these coins. But part of what I like about collecting is finding beautiful coins, understanding that they would grade 70 and sending them in for certification, and knowing that because they are in that plastic certified with a 70 grade I have made a nice profit if I intended to sell. Another example: I purchased 10 20th Anniversary Silver Eagle sets and sent 9 in for certification. The moment I purchased the sets I felt like it was a smart place to put $1000 and I was correct. I love that feeling of being right. I get a rush out of it. I still have all 10 sets and have no intention of selling. Just seems like their are alot of haters when it comes to Modern coins and plastic. I also collect Peace dollars, Walkers, Franklins, Morgans, ect. But to me it is very satisfying to think out a purchase about Modern coins and being able to see your money well spent. And to all the haters that think the 70 certified modern coins are a joke sell them to me for raw prices. I will buy all you have....

[MikeInFL]

CC,

 

I'm not sure who you were referring to, but please don't confuse me with a "hater". My observations were heart-felt and offered in your own best interest.

 

That said, and understanding that a significant portion of your collection was purchased raw, I can see how these prices might truly point to some profit, and for that you should be proud.

 

However, for those who purchase their modern coins in slabs, I would hope you can/would acknowledge the truth in my (and others') observations on the disconnect betwen true market value and the prices portrayed in Numismedia as well as the danger associated with "buying cheaply" for these issues.

 

Take care...Mike

[Arizonadesertrat]

CC,

 

There is a difference between NGC and PCGS regarding MS70 and PF70 grades for contemporary coins. NGC is more liberal, and the market prices of NGC 70 coins reflect this (i.e., tend to be lower). Dealers in modern U.S. coins and collectors (beyond the rank novice level) are aware of this. Be careful, and remember that you haven't made a dime yet.

As I said, the market for these so-called 'perfect' contemporary coins is thin---it's easy to find sellers, not so easy to find people who want to buy these kinds of coins.

[CoinCurious]

CC,

 

There is a difference between NGC and PCGS regarding MS70 and PF70 grades for contemporary coins. NGC is more liberal, and the market prices of NGC 70 coins reflect this (i.e., tend to be lower). Dealers in modern U.S. coins and collectors (beyond the rank novice level) are aware of this. Be careful, and remember that you haven't made a dime yet.

As I said, the market for these so-called 'perfect' contemporary coins is thin---it's easy to find sellers, not so easy to find people who want to buy these kinds of coins.

 

I appreciate the advice. And I am aware that PCGS 70s sell for more than NGC 70s. And being I have sold nothing I realize I have made nothing as well. But do you disagree that having $28.00 invested in an NGC 70 graded modern commemorative half is an excellent investment? Although the market for these coins may be thin you will not be able to purchase a certified NGC 70 modern commemorative half for $28.00.

[CoinCurious]

 

However, for those who purchase their modern coins in slabs, I would hope you can/would acknowledge the truth in my (and others') observations on the disconnect betwen true market value and the prices portrayed in Numismedia as well as the danger associated with "buying cheaply" for these issues.

 

Take care...Mike

 

I totally agree. The only large increase in value that I have seen in my modern collection is from raw coins that I have sent in for certification.

[CHABSENTIA]

I have found that Numsimedia is the only one that gives grades up to MS70 in say the A.S.E.Coin World trends does not go up to MS70 and some other grades are also blank. Red Book does not break them down inot grades.

 

 

Where the Morgans are concerned Numismedia features all the grades while Coin world trends lists them all. The Red book goes up to MS60 and skips to MS63.

 

I was looking at some coins that I had graded and were just shipped from NGC. One of them was a 2005W PF70 Gold $5 A.G.E. Numismedia lists its value at $275.00 and Coin World Trends as well as the Red Book dose not list a PF70.

 

 

Another which has been graded is a 1891 O MS62. Morgan. Numismedia lists it as $180.00. THe Red book which jumps from MS60 to MS63 has it as $150.00 in MS60 and $350.00 in MS63 which would make it in MS62 worth about $280.00. Coin World trends lists it as $275.00

 

I have noticed that with all my other Morgans that Numismedia is the lower of all the three values so I would say that based on this that Numismedia is the most Conservative possibly excluding Moderns such as the A.S.E and the A.G.E. at least as for as all grades.

 

 

I have several Commeratives such as Ben Franklin and the Library of Congress as well as the 1986 Statue of Liberty etc from the U.S. Mint. I was looking at the Teletrade auction site and past prices for the Modern Commeratives and many of them are in the $50.00 range as far as the Modern ones.It would cost me $12.00 plus shipping and handling for each if I sent them to NGC for grading and is not worth it to me at those prices.

 

 

The same goes for Proof and Mint sets.I have all the U.S. Proof sets from 1968 and all the Mint sets from 1970.It would cost me $12.00 again for each coin. In a Proof set with even just 5 coins this is $60.00 plus shipping and handling. You can buy some of these Proof Sets fro $12.00 or less. While there are a few years where there could be a chance of a large profit depending on the grade it is not worth the fees on the others so I might Cherry pick a little later.

 

Some of these auctions are getting ridiculous. I was looking at the last four bids on an 1879S in MS63. Somebody had wwon it last time including buyers premium for $358.00 even though the previous three wins were only $58.00 and you can get on in MS65 for less then $150.00 from a Dealer.

 

 

I have noticed this over-bidding on both Teletrade and Ebay. I have seen people bid the same date and grade higher than they could purchase a BIN in the same time frame.

 

 

[michael]

 

Would these 10 coins return a profit if they were not slabbed? Probably not much if any at all. But these coins are slabbed (and whether you collect plastic or not) it does effect the amount of money I can sale these coins for. Just a simple fact.

 

Yeah, it gives a person warm, fuzzy feelings to know he can sell something that has REALLY expensive plastic around the coin so you MUST be the hater of the person you are selling it to

 

how many of your slabs you "value" at right now for $900 would you pay $900 dollars for to double your holdings

 

yes a simple fact you will be selling to plastic buyers EXPENSIVE PLASTIC

 

OH YEA BABY A TRULY RESPONSIBLE THING TO DO THAT SCREAMS OF INTEGRITY AND HONESTY AND GIVING VALUE AND HONESTY FOR THE MONEY your someone i want to buy from and do business with

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CoinCurious]

, I Give Up. I guess its impossible to write anything without having people read more into it than there was actually written. I am HAPPY with my coins.

[CHABSENTIA]

I don't think anybody here is a Hater. Another good example is the release of the 2008 A.S.E. in MS70. HSN has it in an ANACS holder for $299.95. Coin vault has it in an NGC Holder for $249.95 . They are making a big deal about some small design changes.

 

When the 2007W came out in slabs people were asking big prices. I still see these shows asking $149.00 for a 2007W in MS70 and a few months ago you could get a 2007W on Ebay for about $75.00.

 

I saw on Teletrade the other day where somebody had won a bid for a 1879S MS63 for $358.00. This is ridiculous. One can get a 18794 in MS65 for less then $150.00. Am MS63 probably has a valuation of $60.00

 

 

There are people that will over-pay for an item and people that will over charge for an item. Another poster suggested that some areas are overpriced compared to others. I can only answer for Moderns such as the A.S.E, A.G.E, Morgans and Prrof and Mint sets. I am not going to check the Prices in Coin types for which I do not have an interest.

 

I looked at Commeratives the other day on the Teletrade site because I do have some raw Modern CommerativesIt is true they were 69 grades but the prices were low. I do n ot know whether or not if I sent them in that I would get a 70 grade. If I got a 69 then according to the Market it would not be Economically feasible.

 

If they got a 70 then I would hope that there would be a Market for them. Past performance is no indication of futire performance and Valuation sources such as Numismedia, Coin Trends and the Redbook are only indications. In a previous example I mentioned that in my areas that Numismedia is the most conservative of the three. It may be the opposite situation in other types of coins.

 

 

It all comes down to the present Market and what people are willing to pay for that particular type. Unless there is a Buyer that is willing to buy them for a certain price then if they are put in an auction it will depend on what those bidding are willing to pay.

 

If it is a situation where the Person has no intention of selling but is reasonably certain that they could sell them for a great deal more then this is another matter.

 

I recently sent in some $5 A.G..E 10 ounce coins into NGC for grading. 3 were a 69 and one was a 70 as follows.

 

1. 1999 MS69

2. 1999 PF69

3. 2005 PF70

4. 2006 PF69

 

I bought them when the price of Gold was lower than it is today from the U.S. Mint so my price was below $100.00 for them all. Numismedia lists the 2005W PF70 as $275.00 Looking at just melt value of Gold I will get my money back. There is no guarantee that I could get $275.00 for it

 

There is a satisfaction that I own a coin in PF70 and based on Numismedia values that it is worth 2 1/2 times what I paid for it.

 

On the other hand, I bought a 2006 A.S.E 20th anniversary set from the U.S.Mint for about $100.00. The Reverse Proof graded as a PF70.I am not sure that I could get the $880.00 for it that Numismedia claims but I am sure that I could get a great deal more than the $100.00 that I paid for all three coins.

 

 

[jackson64]

if you bought the coins from the mint and got 70's on submissions..then I'm sure your collection is worth more than you have put into it....

 

the point about the cheapness of modern slabs is very true also ...

 

I recently purchased 100 PCGS PF69DCAM coins of various denominations from the 1970's to present....cost me only $600...I thought at $6 per slab how could I go wrong?

 

it turns out that trying to sell them individually is a losing proposition because of fees, time, mailing etc....

 

selling them in small batches returned very little profit for the aggravation...in the end I unloaded them and my entire efforts yielded about a $30 profit after fees, shipping etc etc...I learned my lesson..my "newest " coin is a 1964 PF69UCAM Kennedy

[RWB]

I use a little Oracle database that, among other things, tracks the acquisition date, sources, photo, cost, other expenses, and (important for anyone who is married) the source of the funds used to acquire the coin. Although I don’t have anything in the way of a collection anymore, the source of funds is very helpful when the Bi*ch’s lawyer wants to know if “marital funds” were used to buy the coin.

 

It's fun to note how much you "made" on a particular coin, and you can setup your database to calculate the value adjusted P/L, or to track appreciation against your IRA or 401K, etc.

 

[CHABSENTIA]

Exactly. I may be wrong but I have noticed something that may or may not be true and it concerns Moderns since these are the only coins that you can purcahse directly from the mint.

 

I purchased a !993 Proof Silver Eagle from a Dealer some time ago and when I sent it in for grading I only got a PF68.

 

All of the coins that I have sent in to NGC that have received a PF70 have been coins I have purchased from the U.S.Mint. Noe have been less than a PF69.

 

I suspect that the Dealers get this coins and cherry pick them and send the best to the TPG for slabbing while keeping the Marginal ones in raw state for sale to the Public. I don't know that this is the case in all situations but I am sure that it goes on.

 

I try to look at the Values.While $6.00 each for grading sounds lime a good deal I think that one needs to look and total price and expectations.

 

I mentioned earlier that I had all the Proof sets from 1968 and all the Mint sets from 1970., Even at $6.00 each for grading I have two choices.

 

1. Take a year where I could be assured of getting a good return over all while breaking up the continuity.

2. Break up the set/s and grade individual coins again breaking up the contunity of the sets.

 

Another problem is that some of these are in while envelopes and cellophane containers etc and are thirty years old. The envelopes are falling apart or have little tears etc so there will eventully be a need for other envelopes etc to protect the sealed coins inside as some are not economically feasible to pay for grading.

[jesbroken]

As long as we are two-centing it, I have found that for the coins I pursue(such as early lincolns, washington quarters, buffalos, IHC's and Shield nickels) Numismedia runs lower in value than what I can buy them at(through internet avenues). Inhand purchases at dealers are the best but unfortunately it is a fairly major trip to a dealer from where I live. When I am interested in a series or certain date of a series, I check Heritage for the prices for the grade I'm interested in for the last 6 mos. to 1 year(to note the trend for the last year) and compare it to Numismedia/Redbook and usually have found Numismedia values to be lower than actual sales(one must realize not all pricing can be ascertained from Numis. as it does not give variable circulated grades only a single grade/price). Nothing truly works for Key coins as the market for them really tends to fluctuate between grades, especially VF-AU and again above MS64. An exception to this is that ebay seems to have self destructed for common date coins for sellers and is a buyers market at the moment. The hard to get coins are still bringing sellers plenty of bids but not the common date BU coins.JMO.

[World Colonial]

As one other poster mentioned, the best indication of value for someone's collection are the prices realized at auction. For much of the material described in this post, there should be plenty of sales history on Teletrade and eBay for the moderns and Heritage and Teletrade for the classics. And whatever these prices realized are, that is the best indication of value regardless of what any price guide says.

[CHABSENTIA]

Exactly. I was reading an article the other day that talked about the inflation of Coin Values several years back when the Wall Street crowd invested in coins and prices were driven up,I can remember when Hunt tried to corner the Silver Market and Silver went to $50.00 an ounce.

 

 

These were all aberrations in the Market and when the Wall street crowd decided to jump ship there was as much as an 80% drop in some coin areas.

 

 

 

Silver has been looked upon as the Poor Mans Gold and historically follows gold by a certain factor ratio such as 30 -1. Not sure what that historical average is but I am fiarly sure that it way below it now.

 

 

All of these things need to be taken into consideration and there are usually certain areas that are hotter tehn others at a given point in time.

 

That area will show up in the auction place and the success or non success of any given issue will be what people are willing to pay for it at any given time which will also depend to some degree on wheter the majority of the Buyers in the auction place are informed or not informed and following a craze.

[BULLY]

I've seen this written before, what does the "PQ" reference mean to the coins?

 

[BULLY]

 

On the other hand, I bought a 2006 A.S.E 20th anniversary set from the U.S.Mint for about $100.00. The Reverse Proof graded as a PF70.I am not sure that I could get the $880.00 for it that Numismedia claims but I am sure that I could get a great deal more than the $100.00 that I paid for all three coins.

 

 

I think if you have a PF70 of the 20th Anniversary Eagles (and it's in a 20th Anniversary holder from NGC -- especially if you have the set in the 20th Anniversary Labeled holders, not just the Reverse Proof), then you can get the $880 and MORE!

 

Check out closed auctions and current ones -- those are HOT items. Check out the retailers like ShopatHomeTV and HSN for the same items -- they sell them at 3-4x that.