My opinion is that the sky is green today!

[James_OldeTowne]

Careful - you might hurt his feelings being so blunt with your rebuttal.

If your feelings are hurt, why not just stay ATS? They love you over there. After all, opposing opinions are frowned on by PCGS, now aren't they .

 

So I guess my "facts" - that the report had green, gold and blue wording - were different from his "facts" - that the writing was all in the same color - yet both facts were equally valid.

Your "facts" were correct, but his interpretation of the colors on the page was based upon faulty perception, which does not mean his "facts" were correct. Therefore, the conclusions were not equally valid.

 

Tom, interesting perspective, but not one I'm sure I agree with. I don't think he "interpreted" the colors differently, since to the extent that his vision allows, he perceives only the same wavelengths of light reflected from the blue and gold ink. He isn't capable of interpreting the colors as begin different. His perceptions seem valid to me.

 

Then of course, there are the nuts out there who only see things in ways that benefit them or their companies, and state that a differing perspective is to be completely ignored.

[Tradedollarnut]

If your feelings are hurt, why not just stay ATS? They love you over there. After all, opposing opinions are frowned on by PCGS, now aren't they.

 

Dude - I was posting here way before you got your rear handed to you by HRH & booted off of the chatroom over your Norweb thingy. This ain't your playground and you ain't in charge, so get over it.

 

Then of course, there are the nuts out there who only see things in ways that benefit them or their companies, and state that a differing perspective is to be completely ignored.

 

Oh, grow up. I'm so very very sorry that I hurt your feelings by disagreeing with your sweeping pronouncement that some dealers are crooks. So much so that you had to start yet another thread about the matter...

 

[TomB]

Careful - you might hurt his feelings being so blunt with your rebuttal.

If your feelings are hurt, why not just stay ATS? They love you over there. After all, opposing opinions are frowned on by PCGS, now aren't they .

 

So I guess my "facts" - that the report had green, gold and blue wording - were different from his "facts" - that the writing was all in the same color - yet both facts were equally valid.

Your "facts" were correct, but his interpretation of the colors on the page was based upon faulty perception, which does not mean his "facts" were correct. Therefore, the conclusions were not equally valid.

 

Tom, interesting perspective, but not one I'm sure I agree with. I don't think he "interpreted" the colors differently, since to the extent that his vision allows, he perceives only the same wavelengths of light reflected from the blue and gold ink. He isn't capable of interpreting the colors as begin different. His perceptions seem valid to me.

 

Then of course, there are the nuts out there who only see things in ways that benefit them or their companies, and state that a differing perspective is to be completely ignored.

Someone who is blind can look out on a crowd of folks and perceive that no one is there; does this make it fact? Of course not. The colors radiate and absorb the same light waves regardless of whether or not someone is colorblind, which means the colorblind observer does not process all the information that is presented to him, or derive value from it, to the same extent as others. Therefore, the colors are still there and the light waves are still there, but the colorblind observer is assuredly not correct if his "facts" are as what you had stated.

[cladking]

no it's not..they used to perceive that the sun revolved around the earth...

 

There's the thing... ...it does.

 

Oh sure, you can have much simpler assumptions and definitions if you say the Earth revolves around the sun but you can express the real world as having the sun revolve about it. The equations get pretty tricky.

 

You can even define geometry so the Earth is flat and this makes some real world things simpler.

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

If your feelings are hurt, why not just stay ATS? They love you over there. After all, opposing opinions are frowned on by PCGS, now aren't they.

 

Dude - I was posting here way before you got your rear handed to you by HRH & booted off of the chatroom over your Norweb thingy. This ain't your playground and you ain't in charge, so get over it.

You'll have to take that up with your buddy HRH. Thank him for me, by the way, for booting me over to NGC. With a couple of exceptions, the folks over here are pleasant.

 

Then of course, there are the nuts out there who only see things in ways that benefit them or their companies, and state that a differing perspective is to be completely ignored.

 

Oh, grow up. I'm so very very sorry that I hurt your feelings by disagreeing with your sweeping pronouncement that some dealers are crooks. So much so that you had to start yet another thread about the matter...

Waaaaah ! Tradedollarnut, I really don't think anyone's falling for your crybaby act. And ... uh... I started this thread ... at your suggestion.

 

Someone who is blind can look out on a crowd of folks and perceive that no one is there; does this make it fact? Of course not. The colors radiate and absorb the same light waves regardless of whether or not someone is colorblind, which means the colorblind observer does not process all the information that is presented to him, or derive value from it, to the same extent as others. Therefore, the colors are still there and the light waves are still there, but the colorblind observer is assuredly not correct if his "facts" are as what you had stated.

Tom, the question I would have to ask is whether "facts", or "reality" exists at a macro level, or at a micro level (or both). In your example of the inability of the blind person to perceive the crowd, does the fact that the seeing person believes they exist make it any more real for the blind person? Or do we merely dismiss "reality" as he perceives it?

 

To bring it back to Tradedollarnut's example, if a blind person turns his face to the sky, does it really matter to him whether you see it as blue, but I see it as green? For him, it has no color at all, because the concept of "color" doesn't even exist. There are no "facts" related to color from his perspective.

 

The numismatic parallel to this that I am now seeing, believe it or not, plays directly with the "AT" vs. "NT" debate. Given that a certain coin has beautiful color, if it is utterly impossible for a anyone in the world to know whether it developed over 30 years or 30 seconds, then does it matter whether it is NT or AT?

[TomB]

Tom, the question I would have to ask is whether "facts", or "reality" exists at a macro level, or at a micro level (or both). In your example of the inability of the blind person to perceive the crowd, does the fact that the seeing person believes they exist make it any more real for the blind person? Or do we merely dismiss "reality" as he perceives it?

James, you are beating a dead horse.

[Tradedollarnut]

Seriously, James - give it up. Let's go back to talking coins. You can continue to rail against anything high end or CAC related and I can continually talk down to you low end collectors.

 

Happy New Year!

[cladking]

Seriously, James - give it up. Let's go back to talking coins. You can continue to rail against anything high end or CAC related and I can continually talk down to you low end collectors.

 

Happy New Year!

 

Cool.

 

That's much better than out and out modern bashing.

 

Happy new year all.

[James_OldeTowne]

Seriously, James - give it up. Let's go back to talking coins. You can continue to rail against anything high end or CAC related and I can continually talk down to you low end collectors.

You don't sound very serious.

 

But I'll keep talking coins anyhow!

 

 

So, enough about me. Now let's talk about you! How do you really feel about me?

[Tradedollarnut]

So, enough about me. Now let's talk about you! How do you really feel about me?

 

In general, no feelings at all. You've got a completely different perspective than I do.

[MikeInFL]

no it's not..they used to perceive that the sun revolved around the earth...

 

And to them, it did.

 

 

"Reality" is nothing more than an electrochemical state of our brain.

 

[MikeInFL]

p.s. HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!

[jackson64]

I'm sure all the other people smoking mind-altering substances swear that those pink elephants dancing on the lawn are real also..but no matter their electro-chemically manipulated thinking..it just isn't so

 

cladking--it's great to know that the "Flat Earth Society" is alive and well... (thumbs u

 

Happy new year everyone..and I hope we all have a great year enjoying numismatics

[harvey8542]

Wow this thread reminds me of my kids day care with all the whinning and fighting

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Wow this thread reminds me of my kids day care with all the whinning and fighting

I thought it turned out to be a pretty good thread! But as far as the arguing, it's more like when my two dogs play tug-of-war with the rope. The dogs are fine, but the rope gets all frayed and messed up .

[physics-fan3.14]

Wow this thread reminds me of my kids day care with all the whinning and fighting

I thought it turned out to be a pretty good thread! But as far as the arguing, it's more like when my two dogs play tug-of-war with the rope. The dogs are fine, but the rope gets all frayed and messed up .

 

Philosphers we are not.

[MikeInFL]

Speak for yourself, science boy.