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You know James and Dennis,IF I was You............

Started by MAULEMALL,

34 posts in this topic

MAULEMALL

MAULEMALL

Posted
Posted

I would cross that sucker at ANY GRADE with NGC so you will at least Know what the DAMM GRADE IS. gossip.gifdevil.gif

 

 

 

I will be sending out a package to be graded in the next week or so if you need a piggyback. acclaim.gif

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braddick

braddick

Posted
Posted
NGC just might 'no grade' the coin as counterfeit. 893whatthe.gif Now that would make front page of Coinworld. tonofbricks.gifforeheadslap.gif

 

 

TRUTH juggle.gif

And subsequently be sold in the back pages of CoinAge.
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jeffnpcb-migration

jeffnpcb-migration

Posted
Posted

James, I recieved a PM from a forum member accross the street and he explained in better detail the problem. I sincerely hope that things work out for the best of both parties.

You for the problem!

PCGS for true and honest customer service regardless of the issues at hand!

 

Best of luck!

Jeff

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LucyBop

LucyBop

Posted
Posted

Hey Cat, what I still fail to understand if you know without a -doubt as you state that the coin is blantanly doctored... Why in the world would you even offer this to a good customer?

 

Any dealer that knowingly does this to me will never see a cent again from my very large purse.

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braddick

braddick

Posted
Posted
Hey Cat, what I still fail to understand if you know without a -doubt as you state that the coin is blantanly doctored... Why in the world would you even offer this to a good customer?

 

Any dealer that knowingly does this to me will never see a cent again from my very large purse.

893scratchchin-thumb.gifpopcorn.gif
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MAULEMALL

MAULEMALL

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Hey Cat, what I still fail to understand if you know without a -doubt as you state that the coin is blantanly doctored... Why in the world would you even offer this to a good customer?

 

Any dealer that knowingly does this to me will never see a cent again from my very large purse.

 

 

EXTREAMLY large purse thumbsup2.gif

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JadeRareCoin

JadeRareCoin

Posted
Posted
Hey Cat, what I still fail to understand if you know without a -doubt as you state that the coin is blantanly doctored... Why in the world would you even offer this to a good customer?

 

Any dealer that knowingly does this to me will never see a cent again from my very large purse.

 

Hey Lucy, we forgive you for not knowing the answer to your question. Even though that very question has been answered by us many times in the past few weeks, there is just too much dang information to digest in the "Norweb threads".

 

One more time: the answer is that we brought this coin to the client for review. It was on memo, along with approximately 20 other colonials, from a national dealer. I discussed the fact that it was "not right" and the customer completely agreed. The grade was secondary. In fact, our client only collects RAW coins and we often get a good laugh by looking at PCGS grades of colonials.

 

He bought the pedigree/provenance of Norweb at a premium price. We did not set the price of the coin.....the national dealer did. Our client wanted us to bring him a group of colonials from which he could select "interesting" pieces. We do not mispresent anything we sell. We had little incentive to sell the coin since we did not own it. At the same meeting, we sold the same customer a $26,000 colonial that was not pedigreed, but was accurately graded. He has ties to the Norweb family (he lives in Cleveland) and is interested in items from the original collection. If he were on a collecting budget, then he would not have taken the coin. Hai capito??

 

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted
Hey Cat, what I still fail to understand if you know without a -doubt as you state that the coin is blantanly doctored... Why in the world would you even offer this to a good customer?
We informed the customer that the coin was, in our opinion, doctored. But his interest is in owning coins pedigreed to Norweb. Grade is secondary to this gentleman.

 

Any dealer that knowingly does this to me will never see a cent again from my very large purse.
Even if you were honestly informed up-front of the problem?

 

The key here is, and always has been, that this coin was purchased with our reliance on PCGS' assertion that it was a Norweb coin.

 

James

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LucyBop

LucyBop

Posted
Posted

Even if you were honestly informed up-front of the problem?

 

If I was informed up-front about the problem, then its on me if I make the purchase....... I read much of this/those threads, I never quite caught that the customer knew the coin was blantanly doctored, i thought i read overgraded..

Overgraded and blantanly doctored are two diffeent issues...

 

I would still think as soon as you realized its blatantly doctored, you refuse to sell it to a good customer and return it from where it came.......

 

Am I still missing something in all these threads? Why did your verbage change from overgraded which is one thing, to blantanly doctored which another even worse issue......

 

A overgrade coin i may still buy if I informed upfront or come to that conclusion on my own afetr viewing the coin, but a blatanly doctored coin is a whole different matter..

 

Did you really tell you client, its blantanly doctored and he still spent 3k on it?

 

Or did you simply say, its overgraded as previous post/threads seem to suggest.

 

Lucille

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LucyBop

LucyBop

Posted
Posted

However, if as you say in your latest thread the customer understood full well its doctored, and they made the purchase in good conscience, then, you cats did everything you could do.....

 

Not trying to knock your companys integrity, it still is troubling to me that a dealer would knowingly be involved in pushing a blantanly doctored coin...

 

but, I suppose your in a bad spot if the customer insists on its purchase..

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JadeRareCoin

JadeRareCoin

Posted
Posted

Hi Lucy,

 

I take no offense to your line of questioning. It's healthy for the debate.

 

People who are staunch PCGS supporters are surely scratching their heads and saying, "how could this be a doctored coin if it's in a PCGS MS-64 RD holder??". Please understand that our opinion of "doctored" is slightly different than the mainstream. We are members of EAC, JRCS and C4. While we are not hardline members, we are somewhere between EAC grading and mainstream grading. A Franklin half that is dipped is a doctored coin to me. The Norweb Hibernia is a dipped coin that has also been recolored. The obverse has been harshly cleaned at one time. James noticed the problem immediately. I also knew that it was not natural and that the obverse was missing 100% of the luster and the reverse about 50% of the luster. The color is not right either (too pink). That being said, it is kind of neat looking, but NOT an MS-64 and NOT a RED.

 

After posting our marathon thread, a person very, very, very close to the coin confided in us that the coin was doctored by a well known, national dealer who also happens to doctor a lot of coins. He also happens to be a major submitter to PCGS. That particular doctor/dealer was wise enough to know that the coin would not be very easily sold unless it had another positive aspect or selling point. So, hmmm, what could one do to boost the attractiveness of not-so-original early colonial???? How about fraudulently state on a submission form that it's from the Norweb sale and then submit it to PCGS?!?!?

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LucyBop

LucyBop

Posted
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Well, you cats have been very upfront in answering my questions and many others that have come up as a result of this unfortunate situation. It is my wish, that somehow, yourselves, your customer and PCGs could come up with a solution that is acceptable to all three parties...........

 

It is a unfortunate situation....... Atleast the customer and maybe even you cats can get one thing out of this mess, investiagte the claims of a pedigree prior to purchase.......

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LucyBop

LucyBop

Posted
Posted

and my latest response doesn't let PCGs off the hook on this mis-attributed coin.... somewhere somebody else would have ran into this problem it seems... It unfortunately fell on you guys...

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LucyBop

LucyBop

Posted
Posted

hey Lucy,

 

You know HRH, don't you? Please give him a call and talk some sense into him. Maybe loosen him up with a Margerita or two...or three.

 

I wish I could play a positive roll in fixing this one... I really do.....

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crito

crito

Posted
Posted
Don't waste your breath on them

 

whats that mean?

 

It means one need only look at your website to realize your pro-PCGS bias. Not a single NGC coin for sale. Since I doubt Jadecoin will be doing a lot of business with PCGS and since that's all you seem to care for, it's a waste of their breath trying to schmooze you.

 

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LucyBop

LucyBop

Posted
Posted

Funny you say that.....

 

I have a nice recent submission of 20 1961 NGC Frankies that were recently graded and have shown up. I will sell some, donate some to Jeremy, and give away others....

 

I would challenge you to find one post or thread where I insult/slam NGC.

 

I have many of their coins and have sold many..... I currently have a lovely 1955 ms65 NGC rainbowed colored Franklin available. I do have to update the website...

 

I would also gustimate that I have purchased roughly over 5k on NGC Franklins...

 

Hey, them and PCGs are the top dogs plain and simple..... To my pleasure, I have been discovering many coins in NGC holders that I feel are undergraded....

 

Both of these entities produce a qaulity product... and unfortunately, both have some hic-ups along the way......

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crito

crito

Posted
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I'm afraid you still don't "get me". If someone had questioned my integrity in such a manner, even a million dollars couldn't make it right again. My honor is worth more to me than any amount of money.

 

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LucyBop

LucyBop

Posted
Posted

I was trying to understand what really occured, as it appeared that this doctored coin was sold to the customer without being disclosed as such.

 

As I understand it now, this was disclosed upfront completely, and the customer didn't care and still wanted it based on the pedigree....... So the JADE Boyz made the sale, the customer knew full well about this situation, but wound up with a pedigree coin in question......

 

If I'm understanding this correctly now.....

 

Had the Jade boyz had not told this customer upfront about the problems they felt the coin exhibited, then this would really be bad for their integrity, however, it sounds like they were very upfront and honest with their client.

 

 

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted

Let me augment what Dennis said earlier:

 

To my knowledge, since the official inception of jade Coin Co. four years, we have never, ever sold a coin without disclosing ALL known problems with it. Having been taken ourselves numerous times over the years (an expensive education), it has been our set-in-stone policy from day one. Said policy INCLUDES coins certified by PCGS, NGC, and all other certification companies.

 

James

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JadeRareCoin

JadeRareCoin

Posted
Posted
Well... then I guess Dennis did the right thing shmoozing you after your insinuations. I for one, however, am not impressed by the size of your purse.

 

Complete agreement.

 

Uh....I am missing something here? "shmoozing"???? I don't shmooze to anyone...ever. In fact, Lucy had sent us a PM about a month ago on the PCGS forum inquiring about some Franklin halves that we have. After about 1 week, I responded and, as I recall, I informed her that we would get back to her but our Franklin halves were not very nice and she would not be interested in them. We probably have the lowest pressure sales tactics of any coin company. We do not send spam email, employ telemarketing or mail advertisments. That's probably a bad idea from a business perspective, but we let our coins sell themselves via our web site. When someone is interested in a coin in our regular inventory, we will give them as much information as they desire and will take time to speak with them via phone or email for as long as they want.

 

Shmoozing???

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