Tarekss1

I think you are right especially for silver eagles with a first day label. I have had a couple and was not willing to pay more for them and the seller honestly was not asking for more. However, I think the black holders look nice, might actually pay a little more for them if the seller insisted it on it. I will try not to though !

Sometimes NGC grades the coin in a colored holder with a special label like First Day Issue or the name of the mint like attached holder. Is it more expensive to grade coins with these holders ? Is it okay for the seller to ask for a higher price ? I sometimes see silver eagles with first day labels sell for almost the same price as those without the label. Is that generally the case or some labels are more desirable than others ?

Thank you J P M for your reply. The trickiest is between 15 and 45 degrees i think. As for the coin sale price, I don't always buy coins whether graded or ungraded for what others are willing to pay for them. Sometimes certain coins get very expensive because all of a sudden collectors are willing to pay for them, and when they stop buying their price goes down fast. And the opposite happens as well.

Is it easy to use ? Would you be able to measure the rotation accurately ?

Thanks

What did you do I don't get it ?

What did tarek do now ?

Given how this thread has evolved in a matter of days I appreciate the wisdom behind your decision not to. Cheers, Tarek

Thank you coinbuf for your reply. The coin is listed on Ebay and the rim looks fine in the ebay pictures taken from a different angle. As others pointed out this is an AU coin and as per NGC's grading scale minor wear is expected on the high points of the coin. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all those who were nice enough to comment on my post. When I started this post I did not even know the name of the error. I had no clue of whether misalignment happens on either side or both and now at least I have some idea about these kinds of mint errors and hopefully by following your posts I will get to know more. I apologise to those who regard arguments as being offensive or combative and I wish you all the best. Best regards, Tarek S Elkaddah

The rim is still present in this one too !

Well first the the attached liberty dollar is off-center and it is very obvious that none of the details are missing, none the less it has been labeled an error. So please explain? Second I am not twisting your words that is exactly what you said "For a coin to have an error for off center strike, the minimum amount it needs to be off center is 5% to get the designation.". If you meant to say something else I guess it is not my problem. Thirdly, I maintain that US cents struck in large numbers with rotations is an irrelevant example even for US buyers of other coins as you can not generalise based on a coin that incidently was so common to have rotations. You said and i quote " That said, many early US cents in particular had numerous rotated dies and they are considered common in early US cents. It is not until dies are rotated 180 degrees which produces a condition called Medallic Alignment which is considered highly desirable by collectors as when the coin is flipped from left to right, the image on the other side is face up versus normal coin alignment which is when the coin is flipped top to bottom.". You claim that its not until its a 180 rotation that it is cosidered highly desirable; may be this is true for US cents. However, we were not talking about US cents, it seemed like you were suggesting that in general a 180 degree rotation is needed for a coin to become desirable and command a premium ! And that proposition seems out of context as I saw countless examples of coins being sold at a 300 and 400 percent premium for rotations that were way less than 180 degrees (i included auction results of a couple of morgans that were sold for much higher prices despite having rotations way less than 180, you can find plenty more !) . Also, misalignment can happen on both sides. Does not have to be on one side. You can see the attached! Lastly, my question had nothing to do with premiums. My question was about whether or not it gets an error designation and when does it get labeled as an error. Premiums are subjective and if you track auctions you will eventually realise that "to each his own". I honestly would not try to come up with elaborate equations for what fetches premiums and what does not, cause eventually buyers will break the rules. That's just me! Best regards, Tarek S Elkaddah

Well my coin was struck at the royal mint so who knows! As for the matter of securing the border, I guess you could always build a fence. Or at least pay for building one 😀 I guess this concludes the matter. ps. Someone has already explained that it should be atleast 5 per cent off centre to qualify for a mint error designation. The border is not the same everywhere because it is actually off center. When they grade it and put it in a holder we will know if it is 5 per cent or less. Best wishes, Tarek S. El kaddah

Seems like these people migrated to the city as apparently you can find them everywhere! ps. no one would have paid even a 20 for this one if it was not for the error and this time it is only 80 degrees!

Well, obviously if an error is so common like early US cents that is not something special. But I would not say Egyptian coins are prone to either rotated dies or mis-aligned dies. I rarely see graded Egyptian coins with either error designations. Either way, I don't think the US cent example is even relevant for US coin buyers. Attached is a photo of a morgan dollar graded xf 40 with a rotated dies error designation and got sold ages ago for almost 200 dollars. Had this coin been just xf and had no mint errors, it would have probably been sold for no more than 50 usd, and the rotation is only 90 degrees not even 180. I also think that NGC came up with the 15 degree rule after giving it alot of thought. Can not just say, yeah it has a rotated dies error designation on the holder, but hey it is not a full 180 degree who cares ! I don't think it works that way. Here is somone who bought a morgan for 4 times its value just because of a 90 degree rotation!

Well the beauty about errors in my opinion is that the coin is different from the thousands or in this particular instance the millions of other boring coins that were minted. The question of whether someone else cares or not is irrelevant. To be honest, even I personally don't care if anyone else cares or not 😀 Have a great day, Tarek S elkaddah