BULLY

I know that NGC doesn't put a value or specific grade on conserved coins, whether in the NGC holders today, or the NCS holders from years past.

I was surprised at a couple of things I encountered this weekend:

1. Of all the 1883 Hawaiian coins 1c, 10c, 25c, half dollar and dollar, the only one I found in the NGC Price Guide is the 25c coin, and those with a census under 125 coins.

2. I understand that MANY of these coins were melted, leaving surviving quantities unknown.

3. While not expecting values of graded coins vs details graded coins, I was surprised at how many sales, just on EBAY for example. many details holders from NGC, fewer from PCGS. The especially surprising part is the cleaned or otherwise problematic "details" coins were selling for many hundreds or even many thousands of dollars.

So, here's the question: Since NGC reports coin sales, would NGC consider adding a price guide section on coins that are DETAILS GRADED sales, not on every coin in history, but certain groups that seem to be overwhelmingly cleaned and so forth, such as the Hawaiian series in 1883, and I suspect other sets of which I am unaware.  '

Like me, I don't think collectors would find value in a detailed graded Kennedy Half dollar, a Sacagawea dollar, Jefferson nickel and most modern coins since they are the true exceptions, rather than the rule.

Secondarily, is is possible there is data that NGC Price Guide can find or add to other 1883 Hawaiian issues, other than JUST the quarter dollar? Census data? Any sales?  While I don't suggest anything deliberate, it just seems unlikely that collectors who are willing to pay many thousands of dollars for NGC or PCGS DETAILS GRADED, haven't bought ANY graded Hawaiian coins other than a 25c when most of those sales that appear in the NGC Price Guide occurred 5 to 11 years old.

Admittedly, I own an NCS slabbed Hawaiian Details Graded coin, one of them shown below. 

Anyway, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the subject, particularly because it seems so little is available, welcome from NGC or from other collectors.

As a follow-up to my earlier post...

I was just thumbing through the "Money Market" (a catalog from the American Numismatic Association - ANA), and I found a couple of software programs for sale.

FIRST: I have no experience with either one of them, so I cannot comment on them.

SECOND: IF anyone here does have experience with them, perhaps they can comment.

THIRD: I read that opened DVDs and such may not be returned, thus my suggestion to ask around.

FOURTH: Two prices, one for members, one for NON-MEMBERS.

FIFTH: The catalog is available online at www.money.org

SIXTH: While I am an ANA member, I am not affiliated with the ANA in any official capacity so I am NOT endorsing these items, trying to sell them, nor do I necessarily recommend them. The topic was raised, and these seem to fit the subject at hand. Decide for yourself. As I mentioned, I have no experience with the items at all. In an earlier post, you may have seen that I use a self-created Microsoft Access database. I hope others have experience with either of these and perhaps can comment. I may even be interested myself. It might be nice to have a database that was actually created specifically for this, rather than my homegrown creation. Although Access costs more than these do, so....

Items for instance:

Coin Collector's Assistant Plus, by Carlisle Development Corp.

It says "...Features pricing provided by Coin World. Enter any US coin into the database including commemoratives, government sets, bullion, California gold, Hawaiian, and Colonial issues. Print custom reports and labels including want and sell lists. Load an unlimited number of coins and search across multiple fields including specification, purchase and sale information, condition, certification, inventory codes, notes and more. High quality pictures are included in the program - or upload your own photos. A status line at the bottom of the screen displays the total value of your collection. Pricing updates are available annually from Carlisle Development. Windows compatible." Item SU036 List Price $84.95 ANA Member Price $75.95

There is add on software available for US Currency and for World Coins. SU36C, SU36W

Special Combination Offers also available.

The other item is

Coin Keeper Deluxe Software by HobbySoft.

It says: The only software inventory program that combines a comprehensive database of US coins issued from 1793 to the present and the "Official A.N.A. Grading Standards for U.S. Coins" in one program. Enter coins with ease in the collection entry window and change or delete records as needed. More than 1,000 high quality images by grade help you to evaluate coins in your collection. Coin Keeper Deluxe tracks your collection with multiple reports based on value, sold and want lists or create custom reports. Software updates are available every January from HobbySoft with the current issues and market values. (PC ONLY)." Item number SU038 List Price $89.95, ANA Member Price $85.95

I would like to hear from anyone who has had a good experience with some coin inventory software. The ones I see on EBAY have links to PCGS prices, etc. I would like to hear from NGC folks on what software works best for NGC slabbed coins and collections in general. I have accumulated way too many coins, prrof sets, etc., and need some inventory software for insurance purposes.

 

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to reply,

There are different levels of fire protection from different safes.

There are other companies, but Liberty (link below) makes some very high quality safes (and insurance companies are familiar with Liberty, at least mine was). The Lincoln model combines form and function, while some models at lower prices provide more than adequate protection. Other companies I am certain have quality safes as well, I just happened to have a local dealer making this practical for me.

http://www.libertysafe.com/safegallery.lasso

That said, some later poster indicates dessicant, and he/she was correct. The larger safe's can be purchased with dehumidifiers, to help protect coins and keep the environment inside the safe "safe" for them. Many safe deposit box rooms in banks are FAR FROM IDEAL for coin storage because they are actually HUMIDIFIED. Banks assume that many customers store precious documents (birth certificates, marriage licenses, wills, cash, and other PAPER) and thus humidify the rooms. However, for coin collectors, this is a nightmarish environment.

When selecting a safe deposit box storage room at your bank, it may be important to find one that is: Not in a basement, that is NOT on an exterior wall that may be subject to weather conditions, that may not be on a top floor and subject to roof leaks, and after all those things, find out from the branch manager whether or not the vault where the safe deposit boxes are kept is humidified (most tellers won't know, or you cannot rely on their answers -- go right to the source).

So, could a fire still melt the contents of a home safe? Sure, if it burned long and hot enough. What you are buying with a safe is not only security, but time. If no one is home, or you live in a remote area, and thus it takes a while before fire crews arrive, that could mean a longer time before the fire is extinguished and thus your safe may reach beyond its protective limit.

This gets into the topic of insurance for your collection, whether you store it in a bank safe deposit box or at home in a safe or otherwise.

Imagine if you stored your collection in a bank safe deposit box in NEW ORLEANS just a couple years ago, and hurricanes Katrina and Rita struck, and your bank was literally under water for days, weeks or months. How would your precious or even PRICELESS collection fare? The same with a safe in your house! The (large) fireproof safes are RARELY waterproof. Some smaller safes (similar to one described that could be filled with just a couple NGC storage boxes) may be water and fireproof, but could be carried away by a thief. Even if bolted to wall or floor, could be pried off a floorboard.

Back to the fire or flood though and thus the need for insurance. If you are a member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), you are eligible to purchase insurance at various levels of coverage and in different amounts through a group plan they have arranged through the Hugh Wood Agency in New York City, a policy underwritten by AXA, a reputable company.

Visit the ANA's web site at www.money.org

Before you stop and say "my homeowners will cover it" - think again, and check! Most homeowners insurance policies may cover a coin collection, to a maximum of $250, $500 or possibly $1,000 per loss. For many of us, that may be a single coin - never mind our collections! Also, unlike scheduling expensive jewelry items on your homeowners policy, most homeowners carriers have little to no experience with coin collections, and therefore, are either unwilling or if they ARE willing, will charge excessive premiums to do so. The policies you may obtain through the ANA group plan have options which can save you money if you keep your collection in a safe deposit box, or in a safe, have a security system, etc.

While you need not provide them with a complete list of your collection to purchase your policy, you WOULD need an inventory in the event of a loss to make a claim, which is only reasonable. They do require you to list with them any individual coin items that are worth in excess of $10,000 - another perfectly reasonable requirement.

There are plenty of ways to take inventory of your collection:

1. The NGC Registry is a start. It may not be comprehensive, but it is something!

2. Some people use Excel spreadsheets

3. Some people use a simple pen and paper

4. I've seen software advertised in Numismatic publications specifically designed to help take inventory of a coin collection. Specifically, I've seen the ads in Numismedia, the official publication of the ANA.

5. Personally, I use a Microsoft Access database which I can export to Excel, and I start with a graphic user inter-phase (GUI), with drop-down menus and so on such as:

a. Year of issue

b. Composition (Silver Bullion, Gold Bullion, Coin Silver, Clad, etc.)

c. Item Name (simple name like): 1976-S Proof Ike Dollar

d. Item Description (detailed such as): 1976-S Proof Ike Dollar, PR69 by NGC Serial Number 1234567-001

e. Face Value: $1.00 (U.S.)

f. Purchase Price: $25.00

g. Replacement Value: $40.00 (and I might base this on Numismedia, the PCGS Price Guide, or the Red Book, whatever you have that is available for the subject at hand, and whatever is favorable). Keep in mind that your insurer may use their OWN value in the event of a loss which may be different from yours. Also, when you tally the value of all your coins, it will help decide how much insurance to purchase, so realistic replacement estimates are important!

I know the topic was originally fire safes, but it REALLY does overlap into insurance, the two cannot be mutually exclusive.

I was wondering if a fireproof home safe would work well for storing and pretecting slabbed coins? However, if there is a fire, would the temperature inside the safe get hot enough to melt the slabs and ruin the coins. Does anyone have any knowledge about this issue?

The latest, not necessarily the GREATEST just returning from NGC.

On the upside, I took a chance and bought them RAW from an unknown seller on eBay. Add to the fact that Libertads from Mexico were VERY new to me.

This is what I got, which was just slightly above melt at the time, and is BELOW melt at today's prices, with silver topping $19.29 per oz.!

Sellers pic's won on Ebay for a whole $6.25 shipped

Uh oh, there is a "Label Collector" on the boards here somewhere, who LOVES collector society labels, among others, and he may be out to get you for that super bargain!

It's totally modern, but here's the latest prize returned from NGC, relatively low mintage, and low pop accordingly, and GOLD, and a perfect 70!

Bully,

 

Very nice images of those coins, how did you produce those, a scanner?

 

Rey

 

Thanks, but I cannot take credit. Because these coins were "unique" to me, not just a state quarter or just a silver eagle or something fairly "common" to my collection, I opted for the NGC $3 per coin Internet Imaging fee. (thumbs u They've improved their photos though, I can swear to that, and I think these photos speak to some decent quality. I have some from a period of time last year -- I call them "the dark days" of NGC imaging.

So, truth be told, those images are the photos provided courtesy (well, for a price) of NGC -- better than I could have done, which was why I paid for it for this batch of coins.

Mike aka Bully

Those are pretty cool coins, Bully. I've heard of the denomination but didn't know that the state quarters were on them. I can see how they could interest a state quarter collector.

For the record, I'm not an expert on the Kookaburra by any means, but I am reasonably certain that the ones which include the State Quarters on them are just a variety. Most don't have that.

--- and to Revenant: Any time I can get additions to my collections to fill Registry slots or what not, like those MS state quarters you just landed, for less than a grading fee, I say, WOO HOO! Seriously, what a bargain! Gotta love that.

I asked Santa to send it to me, and I got it, and I sent it to NGC to be graded -- the 25th Anniversary of the Libertad coin from Mexico.

I was REALLY hoping for a 70 coin, but then don't we all?

However, I got a lovely PF69 Ultra Cameo, here we go:

Those are seriously cool, Bully!

Thanks Revenant! I'm actually curious to see if other collectors have seen these coins before. I had not, which was why they caught my eye. I know the first year designs are coming to light again as the last year issues are coming out, so when I found these, I thought the same thing: COOL! Whether others agree, well, we see.

I mean, I haven't seen the rest of the states, for instance - ANYWHERE. Are there people who may have collected the entire "State Quarter" series in SILVER BULLION Kookaburras?

Of course, I am partial to the fifth in the series here, Connecticut, my home state, also known as "The Nutmeg State," featuring the famed "Charter Oak" because of the interesting lore behind how the tree was used to hide the charter from the King's men during the American Revolution. There's more the story, but it's a nifty piece of history.

Comments from the peanut gallery?

I had never heard of or seen these before, but came across them and thought they were an interesting sort of "crossover" collectible. Ok, I know, these are not U.S. coins, BUT, I thought I'd post them here for U.S. collectors who are into State Quarters, so they are "kinda" on topic that way.

I think they could be interesting to collectors of:

1. Australian coins

2. Bullion collectors (silver bullion)

3. State Quarter coin collectors

4. Any or all of the above!

They're Australian Kookaburra coins, with U.S. State Quarter "privy" marks, so they actually have images of what would be to them a foreign coin on the face of their coin. I just think that's kinda wild, and just goes to show the impact that the State Quarter Program had on coin collecting.

That said, NGC graded these quickly. The World Modern coins seem to move faster than U.S. submissions. Anyway... take a look. I got them all at once, raw, and was lucky in that most of them graded MS69, with just ONE at an MS69. I paid a fair price considering the bullion prices these days, so I can live with it.

I included what are actually the reverses, even though NGC thoughtfully makes them the obverse in the slabs since they are the subjects of interest. I added ONE photo of the obverse, the effigy of H.M. Queen Elizabeth II

With the various collectible "angles" of these coins, I thought they were find anyway.

I had never heard of or seen these before, but came across them and thought they were an interesting sort of "crossover" collectible.

I think they could be interesting to collectors of:

1. Australian coins

2. Bullion collectors (silver bullion)

3. State Quarter coin collectors

4. Any or all of the above!

They're Australian Kookaburra coins, with U.S. State Quarter "privy" marks, so they actually have images of what would be to them a foreign coin on the face of their coin. I just think that's kinda wild, and just goes to show the impact that the State Quarter Program had on coin collecting.

That said, NGC graded these quickly. The World Modern coins seem to move faster than U.S. submissions. Anyway... take a look. I got them all at once, raw, and was lucky in that most of them graded MS69, with just ONE at an MS69. I paid a fair price considering the bullion prices these days, so I can live with it.

I included what are actually the reverses, even though NGC thoughtfully makes them the obverse in the slabs since they are the subjects of interest. I added ONE photo of the obverse, the effigy of H.M. Queen Elizabeth II

With the various collectible "angles" of these coins, I thought they were find anyway.