JimL55

I inherited 300 pre- 1930 Swiss Franc 20 Helvetia UC. Would any of you know of any rare/valuable series in this batch and what do I look for?

22 hours ago, JKK said:

It took them about a month and a half. They all sold except the two counterfeits, on average for a bit more than I expected to realize. I think this is a fantastic time to sell, with metal prices high, but my only market prediction is that the market will fluctuate. They didn't find any that were much more valuable because I did the research in advance. I prepared a great big spreadsheet, researched market pricing and likely outcomes, noted grades estimated vs. grades received, and kept track of everything so that not a single piece remained unaccounted for. I even presented an evaluation of the outcome by which to grade my original projections.

My client was going to be paying me 5% of the gross, and it was on me to earn that fee. To earn it, I had to demonstrate and employ numismatic knowledge sufficient to get her the best outcome, make her comfortable with the process, keep no secrets from her, and act always to her best advantage--while making sure GC also did so. The idea of me just letting someone else tell me which ones were rare, in such a case, would be complete abrogation of responsibility.

I didn't auction them all off, though. Before we sent them in, I spoke with my client about a friend who might be in the market for some. While this was a friend of nearly forty years, the client couldn't be expected to credit that. I suggested a fixed premium that I felt was slightly higher than what GC would get her, plus it would save her their auction fees. It would still be a better deal than my buddy would get at a coin or bullion shop most of the time. If she agreed, I would sound him out; if he made offers, I would convey them and handle the transaction and its cash. Not normal to be packing around over $10K. Counted that stuff three times with friend, three times with client. Didn't take the coins with me to the transaction, because I was telling the truth about everything including our long friendship: this was the kind of man and friend who would gladly hand me about $11K in cash with zero doubt that I would get him the exact coins he had paid for. Client very pleased, especially as the auction unfolded and the majority of the pieces realized a lower payout ratio than what my buddy had paid (not much, but enough for her to realize I had acted in her best interests).

Where GC really paid their way was in knowing how to get the best grading service outcomes for the raw coins, especially the Charlotte $5 gold piece. If that had not slabbed, I'd have been very disappointed.

Thanks for the info! I don't have enough knowledge to research the coins. Can I trust them to do it?

On 12/17/2020 at 3:31 PM, JKK said:

There's a limit to how low the lowball bid will go because they will establish a starting bid. They aren't going to just sell your $10 gold piece for $50, in case you were worried about that.

The way it worked for me is that I first sent two houses a listing of all the coins and how I thought they might grade out. They both replied to me, but I preferred GC's response and decided they would be in my client's best interest. We bundled up the coins (you cannot imagine the level of packing involved on my part; you could have stabbed the box with a knife and not harmed a coin), along with the consignment paperwork, and sent them in. We had to pay a lot for shipping, but bear in mind we had like 130 gold and platinum coins worth about $150K. The vintage coins were not slabbed, so GC sent them for grading. A couple came back Not Genuine; of the others that didn't slab, GC sent them to the other major service. We got good results, and of those three sent to CAC we also received a bean for one (means it is in the upper tier of the stated grade). With that many coins, rather than flood the market, GC auctioned them over a period of about six weeks. Their payout equated to what my recordkeeping said it should, my client was overjoyed, and she enjoyed a nice payday (so did I).

Your ultimate outcome would depend heavily on how the coins graded. If most get details grades (as in AU details--cleaned) rather than full grades, don't expect as much money. The auction house has a vested interest in getting the best grading and auction outcome and part of what you're buying is their expertise in doing that. Your interests and theirs are aligned, up to a point.

You did not pose the question, but here's what would be wrong with selling them to a local dealer: Most local dealers have little reason to want them, nor to pay much of a premium. Gold sucks. People bringing it in tend to think that the dealers should smooch their patooties, and are shocked not to be paid even melt. Yet it doesn't move, and the dealers are lucky to get a little over melt selling it, which happens when someone comes in and says they want to buy gold and expect smooching of their patootie. Then they get mad because they say the price is a gouge. So on a well-circulated $20 gold piece, say (bullion value $1825 today), maybe the dealer paid $1780. Maybe it sells for $1880. The seller was mad because they didn't get melt. The buyer, Moneybags, is mad because they think it should be melt or even a little discount because Bringing A Big Sale. Much negativity for minimal gain. On top of that, for a large gold buy, the dealer is committing a lot of current capital--capital he knows will produce a poor rate of return. Now, this is not the way it works at all dealers, but it's what I saw every day when I worked for one.

I've decided to go with Great Collections and I have some questions. How long did it take for them to auction all your coins? We're they not able to auction some of them? Do you think this is a good time to sell? We're they able to find any that were valuable or do I need to research each coin?

Thanks

4 hours ago, MAULEMALL said:

Seriously.. Chat boards are no place to get financial advice.. If you want to know what EF means , Well RWB and anyone who has been here over a month can tell you...

 But as you have seen in this thread ,You can get a lot of WRONG info..

 Contact a REAL financial adviser.

 

I know nothing about coins. What's wrong with getting a little info on this thread?

4 hours ago, MAULEMALL said:

Silver bullion prices were approx $32.00  an ounce. Your father paid the appropriate amount. He was not scammed or ripped off. 
You have to do some investigating yourself ..

It's very easy to come here and insinuate or outright accuse When you don't know, especially when certain members here blow smoke up your arse ,but they did NOTHING WRONG..

Your Father  tried to make a hedge against inflation and invested in precious metals. Sometimes you kill it, Sometimes you get killed.. 

In this case he got neither. On they contrary ,You have a fart ton of Kennedys to check for Doubled dies and other varieties..

You came out a winner in this. Your Dad did you right.

I heard this from my sister who got the other half of the connection. I'm not making an empty accusation

9 hours ago, RWB said:

Given the amount on money involved, it might be useful to check with an estate accountant to see if it is possible to use your father's basis in the coins rather than the inherited basis -- too many variables in your individual situation to suggest more things. Hopefully, you have access to receipts for the other coins also although the gold likely cost less than the inherited basis.

No receipts or records for the gold coins

11 hours ago, MAULEMALL said:

What was the date your father speculated on the price of silver ?

 

He purchased them in April 2012

7 hours ago, MAULEMALL said:

As I posted above, Without knowing when they were purchased your claim (unfounded at this time) Is right up there with Nevadas PCGS slanders...

 

I have the bill of sale with the date and sales person

14 minutes ago, RWB said:

All are lightly circulated - EF or a bit nicer.

What's EF?

Here are shots of the D and S series

1 minute ago, MAULEMALL said:

Value of 1986 $1 Statue of Liberty Silver Coin | Sell Coins (coinappraiser.com)

Thanks

3 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

You're right. The reference to 1914, a pivotal date in my series, threw the thread for me. I assume a Liberty dollar is what we commonly call an American Silver Eagle. Is it your understanding, as it is mine, that the OP has 186 1986 ASE's? And if so, and in "mint" condition, they will likely enjoy a higher profile numismatically than your average generic bullion silver date? Many thanx!

Just now, JimL55 said:

RWB thank you for giving me an approximate value. Now I have something to go by

When my Dad bought the Kennedys from Goldline International I think he got ripped off. He paid $17 apiece for them. I heard there was a lawsuit where they agreed to buy them back but I can't seem to find any info

1 hour ago, RWB said:

Try turning off the phone's flash or light and using only diffuse skylight coming in a window.

Approximate values based on metal content and quantities from the OP’s post:

 

 

 

25 gold Eagles                        $1,200 ea, $  30,000

 

300 Swiss francs (20 Fr)         $   350 ea. $105,000

 

5 Maple leafs                           $1,850 ea. $    9,250

 

186 silver Liberty dollars        $     35 ea. $    6,510

 

1000 Silver Kennedy halves   $                $    9,350 (1964 date)

 

 

 

Total approx. $160,110. Assuming all are genuine and in AU/Unc condition.

 

RWB thank you for giving me an approximate value. Now I have something to go by

54 minutes ago, JKK said:

Oh. I don't know what a silver Liberty dollar is, but now that I know you have about 100 times more coins than I thought, that helps establish the context. Do you mean Swiss 20 franc coins like the one you pictured?

Yes all pre 1930

3 hours ago, RWB said:

Could some less-harsh photos of the Eagles be posted? From the posted photos, I do not like the looks of any of the coins....but better photos would help.

It's pretty hard getting good photos with my phone but I'll try

3 hours ago, JKK said:

If you just want close to melt (you are not going to get full melt, I do not think), take them to your local bullion dealer.

Thing is, unless I read your post incorrectly, "all the other coins" total four, two gold and two not gold. I agree about the other four, though the Swiss coin might at least have potential. I think the bottom line there is some houses just would rather not mess with small consignments, which by the big houses' lights would include yours, which is how many $10 gold pieces? 18? I'm guessing you did not send them pics of each and every eagle, so assuming they won't grade higher seems a stretch (although I grant that it is one of the more probable outcomes).

I have 25 gold Eagles, 300 Swiss francs, 15 Maple leafs, 186 silver Liberty dollars and 1000 Silver Kennedy halfs

18 hours ago, JKK said:

There's a limit to how low the lowball bid will go because they will establish a starting bid. They aren't going to just sell your $10 gold piece for $50, in case you were worried about that.

The way it worked for me is that I first sent two houses a listing of all the coins and how I thought they might grade out. They both replied to me, but I preferred GC's response and decided they would be in my client's best interest. We bundled up the coins (you cannot imagine the level of packing involved on my part; you could have stabbed the box with a knife and not harmed a coin), along with the consignment paperwork, and sent them in. We had to pay a lot for shipping, but bear in mind we had like 130 gold and platinum coins worth about $150K. The vintage coins were not slabbed, so GC sent them for grading. A couple came back Not Genuine; of the others that didn't slab, GC sent them to the other major service. We got good results, and of those three sent to CAC we also received a bean for one (means it is in the upper tier of the stated grade). With that many coins, rather than flood the market, GC auctioned them over a period of about six weeks. Their payout equated to what my recordkeeping said it should, my client was overjoyed, and she enjoyed a nice payday (so did I).

Your ultimate outcome would depend heavily on how the coins graded. If most get details grades (as in AU details--cleaned) rather than full grades, don't expect as much money. The auction house has a vested interest in getting the best grading and auction outcome and part of what you're buying is their expertise in doing that. Your interests and theirs are aligned, up to a point.

You did not pose the question, but here's what would be wrong with selling them to a local dealer: Most local dealers have little reason to want them, nor to pay much of a premium. Gold sucks. People bringing it in tend to think that the dealers should smooch their patooties, and are shocked not to be paid even melt. Yet it doesn't move, and the dealers are lucky to get a little over melt selling it, which happens when someone comes in and says they want to buy gold and expect smooching of their patootie. Then they get mad because they say the price is a gouge. So on a well-circulated $20 gold piece, say (bullion value $1825 today), maybe the dealer paid $1780. Maybe it sells for $1880. The seller was mad because they didn't get melt. The buyer, Moneybags, is mad because they think it should be melt or even a little discount because Bringing A Big Sale. Much negativity for minimal gain. On top of that, for a large gold buy, the dealer is committing a lot of current capital--capital he knows will produce a poor rate of return. Now, this is not the way it works at all dealers, but it's what I saw every day when I worked for one.

Just heard from Heritage Auction and they said that with the exception of the Indian gold Eagles, all the other coins are just worth their melt value so what's the point of paying to have them graded and auctioned? Is there another way of just getting melt value without going through the process? What do you know about Goldline International?

1 hour ago, JKK said:

There's a limit to how low the lowball bid will go because they will establish a starting bid. They aren't going to just sell your $10 gold piece for $50, in case you were worried about that.

The way it worked for me is that I first sent two houses a listing of all the coins and how I thought they might grade out. They both replied to me, but I preferred GC's response and decided they would be in my client's best interest. We bundled up the coins (you cannot imagine the level of packing involved on my part; you could have stabbed the box with a knife and not harmed a coin), along with the consignment paperwork, and sent them in. We had to pay a lot for shipping, but bear in mind we had like 130 gold and platinum coins worth about $150K. The vintage coins were not slabbed, so GC sent them for grading. A couple came back Not Genuine; of the others that didn't slab, GC sent them to the other major service. We got good results, and of those three sent to CAC we also received a bean for one (means it is in the upper tier of the stated grade). With that many coins, rather than flood the market, GC auctioned them over a period of about six weeks. Their payout equated to what my recordkeeping said it should, my client was overjoyed, and she enjoyed a nice payday (so did I).

Your ultimate outcome would depend heavily on how the coins graded. If most get details grades (as in AU details--cleaned) rather than full grades, don't expect as much money. The auction house has a vested interest in getting the best grading and auction outcome and part of what you're buying is their expertise in doing that. Your interests and theirs are aligned, up to a point.

You did not pose the question, but here's what would be wrong with selling them to a local dealer: Most local dealers have little reason to want them, nor to pay much of a premium. Gold sucks. People bringing it in tend to think that the dealers should smooch their patooties, and are shocked not to be paid even melt. Yet it doesn't move, and the dealers are lucky to get a little over melt selling it, which happens when someone comes in and says they want to buy gold and expect smooching of their patootie. Then they get mad because they say the price is a gouge. So on a well-circulated $20 gold piece, say (bullion value $1825 today), maybe the dealer paid $1780. Maybe it sells for $1880. The seller was mad because they didn't get melt. The buyer, Moneybags, is mad because they think it should be melt or even a little discount because Bringing A Big Sale. Much negativity for minimal gain. On top of that, for a large gold buy, the dealer is committing a lot of current capital--capital he knows will produce a poor rate of return. Now, this is not the way it works at all dealers, but it's what I saw every day when I worked for one.

I've been trying to get a valuation of my $10 Indian Gold Eagles using the NGC price guide and it looks like the auction prices realized are quite a bit lower than the price guide. Maybe it would be better for me to have them graded myself and try to sell them on eBay where I have some control of prices. GC will not let you start the bidding price more than 80% of valuation

23 hours ago, JKK said:

Yes, that's what it means. If you want to sell them, and you have a lot of gold, you might want to contact an auction house. The advantage there is that the house will send them out for grading at their bulk rates, and will pick the grading company likeliest in their opinion to get good results. I've used Great Collections and found them pretty responsive.

I've been looking into Great Collections. How does the auction process work? What if someone wins with a low ball bid? Would I have to sell it for much less than it's worth?

13 minutes ago, JKK said:

Nice photos. You definitely read the memo; the forum's going to enjoy your questions. Helvetia is Switzerland, in case you are not aware, so that's a SFr20 piece. Looks like it might well be an unc; similar for the 1914 eagle. Not seeing rub on the high points, but not sure about the small marks on the fields; we have some excellent gold enthusiasts here who might have helpful input.

Thanks I'm looking forward to learning more. I take unc means uncirculated. I'm not a coin enthusiast, just looking to get a fair price