osborne311

4 hours ago, JKK said:

Heh. Won't take long before you're the board's one to go to on these.

Something clicked today but it wouldn't have without your guidance.   When I first looked through online sources I could not make heads or tails out of anything.  Now with some basic understanding of it, I am starting to at least begin to correctly research.  Thank You

This is greatly encrusted with marine growth but now that I have it oriented correctly - appears to be S545 Seal -script  YUAN-FENG, AD 1078-1085

S-545-550. Bronze 1 cash. Obverse: "YUAN-FENG T'UNG-PAO" in seal, orthodox and grass scripts.  see: http://www.calgarycoin.com/reference/china/china5.htm

On 9/24/2020 at 12:18 PM, JKK said:

The reverse needs to rotate 180, but it's not hard to read. I think the obverse also needs to come around 180. I have a feeling this will be easier to find than the first two (not that I've given up on those; just working on them when attention permits).

I think I have found this to be:  Emperor SHENG TSU AD 1662-1722 with the reverse indicating: S-1422, "BOO YUWAN" (Board of Works mint). The Manchu mint name translates to Pao-yuan or "The Source of all Currency".    http://www.calgarycoin.com/reference/china/china8.htm#kang hsi

5 minutes ago, JKK said:

I think it would depend on the reverse. Do you make that to be a heavily worn/corroded dot? If so, you want to make sure it's oriented correctly using the obverse, because the different issues with a reverse dot have it in different places. I'm not sure whether they used coin or medal alignment, offhand. Coin alignment is like ours, obverse one way, reverse the other. Medal alignment is both sides the same way.

See S565-8    http://www.calgarycoin.com/reference/china/china5.htm

3 minutes ago, JKK said:

I think it would depend on the reverse. Do you make that to be a heavily worn/corroded dot? If so, you want to make sure it's oriented correctly using the obverse, because the different issues with a reverse dot have it in different places. I'm not sure whether they used coin or medal alignment, offhand. Coin alignment is like ours, obverse one way, reverse the other. Medal alignment is both sides the same way.

If it is the coin I believe it is - reverse is blank.  Even looking at the actual coin with magnification - I can see what you are referring to, but unsure if it might just be discoloration or build up from centuries on the ocean floor?

6 minutes ago, JKK said:

This is a case where I know rather than think. Obverse (four characters) is right. Reverse (two symbols) is now 180 out. I think it was correct before. The Qing symbol should be on the left, and the Board of Revenue, or Hu-Pu Board of Trade (whichever it is; the one that looks a little like upside down Devanagari) on the right. This is one of very many issues of Xuan Zong, 1821-50. He has like six or seven pages in Hartill just to himself.

Yes, looking at the coin if the trade character is on the right then the "Boo" character on reverse should be on the left.   I am correcting it now.

21 hours ago, JKK said:

Somewhere in there. Might be 16.261-2, which are better size matches.

I am almost certain that this is YUAN-YU T'UNG-PAO / Emperor Che Tsung AD 1086-1100 / Reign Title: YUAN-YU, AD 1086-1093 / Bronze 1 Cash in Seal -script.   Thoughts?

21 hours ago, JKK said:

Somewhere in there. Might be 16.261-2, which are better size matches.

Finally a break from work for a bit today and plan to dive back in.  

20 hours ago, JKK said:

Obverse image upside down. Definitely Qing, though.

I re oriented.  Do you think both sides are correct now?

Thoughts on this being 16.269 / 1086-93 / Yuan You tong bao / Emperor Zhe Zong?  The size is wrong but the characters seem a good match?

9 hours ago, JKK said:

Okay, progress. Not Annamese; Northern Song. Here's the problem: the top character that looks like a prostrating figure serving as a table base is actually a stylized version of the character yuan, much more commonly written as shown in the link and a common sight on more modern coins for obvious reasons. So one looks at the coin listings, sees that, says "nope, that's not it," when in fact it is.

So I think it's Hartill 16.211, Emperor Shen Zong (1068-85 CE). They're very common, but it is never less than cool to have a coin nine hundred years old.

Thank You!  I definitely plan to reverse engineer your finding once I get that book (ordered) and learn how you are researching.   Never thought there was much value in these but wanted to know what they are other than just an old coin.   This make sense as the coins were mixed from multiple dive sites but more than a few of those dive sites were Song dynasty with a lot of porcelain coming up as well.

6 hours ago, JKK said:

Think you mean 25mm. 2.5mm is pretty small.

Offhand I think it needs to rotate 90 degrees counterclockwise (I think the snakey character goes at 12:00) and it is probably the same issue as your Coin 1 if you compare them closely. Nothing on reverse, obverse characters look quite similar.

Re oriented coin as suggested and corrected measurement.  Thank You

8 hours ago, JKK said:

I did not find an immediate definitive answer (kind of busy right now and pitching in as I can) but I would suggest looking through Annamese coins (circa 1300-1500). I also suspect that the obverse orientation needs to rotate 180.

I re oriented the coin as suggested and corrected the measurement.   Thank You

8 hours ago, JKK said:

I did not find an immediate definitive answer (kind of busy right now and pitching in as I can) but I would suggest looking through Annamese coins (circa 1300-1500). I also suspect that the obverse orientation needs to rotate 180.

I re oriented the coin as suggested and corrected the measurement.   Thank You

10 grams and 30mm diameter.  Guessing at the orientation.  Chinese wreck off coast of Indonesia.

5 grams and 25mm diameter.  Guessing at the orientation.  Chinese wreck off coast of Indonesia.

3 grams and 25mm diameter.  Guessing at the orientation.  Chinese wreck off coast of Indonesia.

4 grams and 25mm diameter.  Guessing at the orientation.  Chinese wreck off coast of Indonesia.

8 grams and 30mm diameter.  Guessing at the orientation.  Chinese wreck off coast of Indonesia.

10 minutes ago, JKK said:

I understand the concern. The etiquette of posting can vary from forum to forum. In this case, the logic is that one coin per thread means that any discussion is clear as to which coin is meant. That works to everyone's advantage.

If you get really interested, there's a large softcover reference called Cast Chinese Coins that is fairly comprehensive. One thing to realize is that cash-type coins may not be Chinese; there are Korean, Japanese, Annamese, and other coins that appear in the same style. As I learned painfully, poring over references until I finally realized that I should be looking in the Koreans, or the Annamese...you get the idea.

Wow - no wonder I had very little luck searching online.   I will look up that book and get it as I do have a lot of interest in this.   Ok so I will start a new thread per coin and just number them so I can keep track of them.   I have a few ready now so let me know if you see I need to change anything.  I am completely guessing at orientation but I do have a kitchen scale that measures grams and dabble in stamps so I can measure in mm.    Appreciate being put on the right road.  Big Thank You!

34 minutes ago, JKK said:

If you want them identified, post them in their own threads, cropped correctly, with weight and diameter. I don't recommend posting five at a time. Also please orient them correctly, rather than at random. If you at least pick an alignment, you have a one in four chance of being correct. For many of us who have the resources and background to ID them, they are a fair bit of work and we would appreciate it being made easier.

Thank You for the guidance.  I did not know if one at a time would be kosher or not.   I will start soon and will label the threads "Chinese Coin 1"  etc.  Just extremely curious what they even are and have no idea where to start.   Ran across this site when researching and looked to be full of people that know a lot more than I do about coins - especially Chinese coins.  Thank You!

I have had a few dozen coins in my possession for decades and have just not done anything with them.   I acquired them from someone that actually had friends in Indonesia that dove wrecks.   They are not all from the same wreck but I believe most of the ships are Song dynasty.  They are in various degrees of condition from able to make both sides out very well to some that are heavily encrusted in marine growth that I have not attempted to remove.   I am curious what they are and wondered if I can post pictures here and get opinions as to what they are or if that is not allowed?   I could post them in groups of 5 front and back using a scanner.   I know nothing about them, have no idea how to make out the Chinese characters and not sure where to start.   I don't think coins of this type have a lot of value but curiosity now has me wondering what they are no matter the worth.   Thank You for the advice.  I posted a few just as an example of what I have but they all seem somewhat different.