2 hours ago, VKurtB said:

I have to dissent from the opinion expressed above about this magnification. I see lots of things, not all of which are actually there. I see digital sharpening artifacts all over these pictures, and jpeg compression artifacts too. If you like this, have at it, and by all means enjoy it. It is sooooo not my cuppa tea, though. My scope is optical, and my Sony alpha6000 shoots in raw format as well as jpeg. The "diff" is night and day.

Can't really fault your opinion here. I was just doing my best to highlight what I think to be informative details - even if they are just contact marks. I know for sure that my cheap little Chinese digital magnifier won't compare with something even just a little more advanced, but it has done the trick with a couple of the details I have been looking for. At the end of the day, it was less than $20. Will probably invest in something much more substantial long term.

Thank you for your thoughts.

On the plus side, I have now had a good few opinions from a range of people and the general conclusion is that all three of the coins I have posted here are genuine. Showed the detailed pictures to a specialist whom I buy from and he has no issue with any of them - albeit they're not all in the best of condition.

It has been advised that I should not get the 1914 Indian Head quarter eagle slabbed as it won't get straight grading due to the damage above and interfering with the 2 1/2 denomination. Still a nice coin though.

Received a 1908-D Indian Head half eagle today and expecting delivery of a 1914-D Indian Head quarter eagle over the next week or so. Here are some pictures of my 1908-D Indian Head half eagle for those who are interested...

Possible tool marks around the start of the arrow stack and above the large 2 in the 2 1/2 denomination, or damage sustained through circulation?

Update: I have taken a magnified photo of the suspicious depression around the 4 in the 1914 date on my quarter eagle and it appears to show tool marks. Would any of you agree with my analysis? Take a look!

Can any of you fine gentlemen spot tool marks in the recess at the back of the Indian's neck on this 1911 Indian Head quarter eagle? Looking for a second opinion. I can't quite tell myself!

1 hour ago, Zebo said:

I like the magifier - what are you using?

Believe it or not, but I’m using a generic X1600 Chinese digital magnifier. Come in all shapes and sizes, but all much alike! If you’re in the UK it will cost you £14.99 and if you’re in the US it will cost you close to £20.

UK Digital Magnifier: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333695349188

US Digital Magnifier: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1600X-Digital-Zoom-Microscope-USB-Handheld-Desktop-Magnifier-8-LED-with-Stand-Y/353160835649?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item523a06b241:g:-WIAAOSwnelfV3Lk

This digital magnifier has eight built-in LED lights to illuminate the surface for easy of analysis. Intensity of the light can be easily changed via a wheel on the cable. You download a very simple software following the instructions provided in the box and it enables you to record and take HD pictures of your magnifications. Fantastic tool at a fantastic price.

On 9/17/2020 at 9:10 PM, VKurtB said:

I think you'll find that a good many U.S. gold coins not melted in the 1930's spent considerable time "across the pond". Most of what is now here, came back from overseas. Regarding being prepared, sometimes I run into things I never would expect to see and I have to walk away if I don't have access to my notes. On this occasion, I had an iPad full of notes.

It is always good to be prepared. Just a shame it isn't always possible. Once question I haven't asked is just how much detail can counterfeit strikes replicate? I have a digital magnifier and when comparing the fine details of my 1913 Indian Head half eagle to NGC-photographed examples, the details are absolutely and unequivocal 1:1! Also, I have read that common counterfeits of the 1913 Indian Head half eagle show tool marks around the 3 in the date 1913, but it doesn't always seem possible to distinguish a light tool mark from a mark obtained through circulation and wear and tear.

For those of you who are interested, I have attached two highly magnified pictures of two important part of my 1913 Indian Head half eagle. The 'zigzag' details in the Indian head dress are absolutely identical to well-photographed examples online.

3 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

Before I buy any tougher raw coin that's on my list, I consult my database of diagnostics.

Ah, so you go in well armed and well informed! If only our politicians would do the same! I’ve got my eye on a 1911-S Indian Head half eagle online. It’s in the UK. Most of these coins are, unsurprisingly, in the United States. Again, it’s a raw coin, but the photos are good and it’s looking great!

2 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

True fact: I actually bought some semi-key U.S. coins at the Bloomsbury Coin Fair (Dec. 2019), and they were all "raw", no slabs. I also snagged some velour-lined wooden trays for my Abafil of Milan case there.

I assume you were pretty confident that they were authentic! There’s also a level of trust instilled in the vendor, though some may consider that blissful naivety! 😂

Just now, VKurtB said:

I do not know, but there is a Canadian firm that does grading and places them in flips. The difficulty is proving the coins examined are the coins present.

The only foolproof way is having them slabbed, but I’m still not too keen on that. I like taking my lovely coins out every so often to compare and contrast with other coins and quality reference books. There are just so many really high quality counterfeits out there that it can be a bit unnerving - all part of the game I suppose!

Having them authenticated as originals but not graded would just be for myself. I have no intention of ever selling my beloved Indians!

25 minutes ago, VKurtB said:

They, and by extension a considerable portion of U.K. coin collectors, are not fans of slabbed coins, as a rule. At Bloomsbury, there were quite few slabs at the tables, especially by comparison to over here. But it figures. At Chards, I challenge anyone to find an AU coin. It goes directly from XF to Unc.  Traditional British grading standards. Spink's doesn't recognize AU either.

Even CNG, located in London, England and Lancaster, Pennsylvania, only does slabs because their U.S. customers "can't grade and need them".

Speaking of slabs, where could I go to have my Indian Head coins authenticated as contemporary originals without having them slabbed? I’m more interested in having them confirmed as 100% authentic originals than I am in their relative grades. They’re all in lovely condition. Regardless of whether they are VF or MS, they are all very much enjoyable to me. They are all the correct weights, dimensions and all of the details are there, but I would like a professional opinion too. I have bought two from very reputable dealers, but I would like to have them checked out for myself. Any ideas where I could have this done without having to have them entombed in plastic slabs?

3 minutes ago, Zebo said:

Are you talking about the small circular depression above the 4 and just below and slightly to the right of the initials? I'm looking on mine, but the photo is too dark to tell.

Yes, that’s correct. That’s the little depression we are looking at. It’s often on some ‘quality’ gold reproductions, i.e. counterfeits made to a good enough standard to fool even those with a little experience.

8 hours ago, MAULEMALL said:

Hmmm AU 60 rears its ugly head...

Welcome to the boards.. I haven't the confidence to touch Gold especially by pictures... But there are a lot who you can depend on here..

Haha! Yes, the AU 60 grade! In fairness, it’s a really pretty coin, and because it hasn’t been graded and slabbed a more reasonable and accurate number can’t legitimately be placed on it. Once my 1914-D Indian Head quarter eagle arrived I shall send all four coins off to NGC and let you know how I get on. Should the 1914 Indian Head quarter eagle come back as a counterfeit then j shall return it to the seller with her lifetime guarantee! 
 

I meant to ask this here, but I’ll put it in my response to you given that we are talking about ungraded coins: Have you ever bought an ungraded Indian Head half or quarter eagle? 
 

I know that some people try to stay away from ungraded coins for obvious reasons, but there are also those who won’t have coins graded as they don’t like them being ‘entombed’ in an NCG slab or otherwise.

15 hours ago, RWB said:

I have very few coins - not really a collection - the ones I have are primarily for study or examination purposes. Most of my efforts are concentrated on research into American numismatics.

I can appreciate that. I’m one of these peculiar beasts who only collects Indian Head half and quarter eagles. Very well might move into other areas in the future, but I’m so drawn in by Pratt’s efforts here and the imagery surrounding it.

Im actually waiting on a book on them that’s had some very positive feedback - The Golden Indians of Bela Lyon Pratt: https://coinweek.com/education/numismatic-books/first-read/first-read-gold-indians-bela-lyon-pratt-allan-schein/

I hear that it’s not only a fantastic reference source for these beautiful coins, but that it’s also interesting reading on raw American history. Plenty of quality images too!

9 hours ago, VKurtB said:

Any chance we could swap? I have a feeling that in a few months, being an ex-pat will be looking pretty good.

I’d swap with you in a heartbeat, sir! I love my country, but my lust for American is a calling!

Any thoughts on these Indian heads here, VKurtB? All knowledge is good knowledge!

🇬🇧 ♾ 🇺🇸 

12 hours ago, tejas1836 said:

 

Top 50 Most Commonly Counterfeited U.S. Coins

According to Submissions to Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC)

 

All three of these coins made the list.

#3. 1914 Indian quarter eagle.  #6. 1911 Indian quarter eagle.   #16. Indian half eagle

I'm not saying these are counterfeit. However, the 1914 does appear to have the counterfeit identifier of a small round depression above the #4 in the date.  Duncan, you might want to have all three coins checked by an expert or perhaps someone here can tell from your images if they're real or fake.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Just Bob said:

Welcome to the forum.

It is a crying shame that, when someone posts pictures of their new raw purchases, rather than congratulate them and brag on their coins, we have to be concerned about whether the coins are products of our "friends" across the Pacific. I am so frustrated with not only the counterfeiters and the complicit government that supports them, but places like Etsy, Mercari, and yes, Ebay, that allow garbage to be pushed on trusting buyers, and do little or nothing to stop it.

Sorry to rant on your post, but this is a sore spot. They look good, and I hope they are authentic, but this is definitely not my area of expertise.

I sincerely hope they are genuine.

10 hours ago, Coinbuf said:

Welcome to the boards and a very nice first post.  I like the Indian Head gold design myself and have a complete AU quarter eagle set in a capital holder.  It is a series fraught with counterfeits so if you plan to purchase any others do your homework and find a good dealer to work with that knows the series.  I'm no expert but the weights and measures are spot on so that is a promising start, however as noted that dot on the 1914 above the 4 is a marker for a known counterfeit.  So I would recommend that you have these checked for authenticity locally if that is possible.

 

 

Gentlemen, I have an interesting point to raise within this discussion. I fully acknowledge that the small depression marginally above and to the left of the 4 in the 1914 date on the Indian Head quarter eagle can be a common cause for concern. It is one of the first giveaways of a counterfeit. That being said, does this mean that all 1914 Indian Head quarter eagles with this identical mark are counterfeits? The reason I am asking this is that a 1914 Indian Head quarter eagle graded at MS65 by PCGS sold on Heritage Auctions for $37,375 and it exhibits this identical mark. My 1914 Indian Head quarter eagle very clearly has this identical depression. I would like to think that a coin like this graded by PCGS and sold via Heritage Auctions was absolutely and unequivocally authentic - especially for what the buyer paid! Please see the link to the Heritage Auction listing: https://coins.ha.com/itm/indian-quarter-eagles/1914-2-1-2-ms65-pcgs/a/1114-1913.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Auction-Archive-ThisAuction-120115

I would also like to add that I am a collector based in the UK, so local authentication services with specialities pertaining to Indian Head half and quarter eagles are few and far between! 

Not to worry, I’ll be in the good old USA soon enough!

I should also note that for the purposes of making this forum beneficial to fellow collectors and new comers, I will give an update on the results of my NGC submission. I’m still waiting on a 1914-D Indian Head quarter eagle, so I shall wait for it to arrive before I submit all four of them for authentication and grading.

2 hours ago, Coinbuf said:

Welcome to the boards and a very nice first post.  I like the Indian Head gold design myself and have a complete AU quarter eagle set in a capital holder.  It is a series fraught with counterfeits so if you plan to purchase any others do your homework and find a good dealer to work with that knows the series.  I'm no expert but the weights and measures are spot on so that is a promising start, however as noted that dot on the 1914 above the 4 is a marker for a known counterfeit.  So I would recommend that you have these checked for authenticity locally if that is possible.

 

 

Hello and thank you for your input!

Absolutely agree with you here. Apologies if I was a little unclear in the post, however. I picked the three up for a little under $1000, but all from different sellers. The 1914 Indian Head quarter eagle was purchased from a collector and seller called Rona Cox. She is a member of the Royal Numismatic Society and has her own website: www.historycoins.co.uk

Furthermore, Rona Cox has a published book called ‘History Through Coin’ and is a fellow of the Royal Numismatic Society. All of her coins come with a lifetime warranty of authenticity, meaning I can get a full refund if I can prove that the 1914 Indian Head quarter eagle I bought from her is a counterfeit.

I was rather confident when buying this coin from her as she had acquired it from Dix Noonan Webb where it had been informally graded at “around mint state.” Did Noonan Webb are world coin specialists.

All of this being said, however, I accept that the depression above the four in the date on the 1914 Indian Head quarter eagle can cause alarm.

I know that the weights and sizes are absolutely spot on, but I suppose this could be replicated provided the same materials were used in the same ratios (Au:Cu/90:10) in the counterfeits. Just a thought.

Looking forward to additional input.

Thank you!

Gentlemen, thank you both for your input. It is common knowledge amongst collectors and enthusiasts that the Indian head series (be that quarter or half eagle) has been plagued with quality counterfeits for many years. It's an absolute nightmare and a crying shame. Alas, where there is money to be made, people make it - honestly and otherwise! 

Hoping a member far more knowledgable than I can infer the authenticity from what photos I have provided. I haven't ruled out sending them all in to NGC for grading.

3 minutes ago, RWB said:

Your 1913 half eagle shows why the Mint and Treasury disliked this design so much. With no rim to protect the design and field, bumps and other marks degraded appearance very quickly. The coins also lost metal faster than the older designs. eventually this led to discontinuance of the quarter eagle.

Thank you for the input, RWB. Yes, I’ve heard this line of thought in addition to public concern around the accumulation of germs in the incuse design of the coin were key to the Indian Head’s demise. Like many pre-1933 gold coins, the National gold recall must also be considered here.

Do you have any Indian Head coins yourself? Be them quarter or half eagles!

Cheers!

Hello all!

I recently acquired three Indian Head coins and would like to share some images of them with you all to get your thoughts. I acquired a 1913 Indian Head half eagle, a 1911 Indian Head quarter eagle and a 1914 Indian Head quarter eagle. None of these coins are officially slabbed or graded, but the 1914 coin in particular is very appealing to the eye. The only concern I have pertains to the lustre boasted by the 1913 half eagle. As you can see from the photos, the 1913 half eagle has a noticeably different lustre. It is not so apparent in person, but still marginally noticeable. The photos do exaggerate it, but really just wanted to share what photos I have with you to get your thoughts. Always interested in second opinions.

Please feel free to comment on my coins - whether it is about condition or otherwise. Also feel free to post pictures of your own Indian Head coins. Can't get enough of these!

Paid just under $1000 for the three. I love the 1914 quarter eagle here, and there is a 1914-D quarter eagle on the way which is a choice BU!

Looking forward to your responses.

Cheers!

Duncan.