Liverpool 4 ever

Very kind of you, VKurtB and Powerrmad!  Very helpful information indeed.

Last year I submitted to NGC a set of 8 coins which I believed were of significant value. Then I used standard tier and assigned coin values based on what I thought would be appropriate. In one instance I valued a coin $3,000 believing the coin would be in the MS 65 range. Much to my chagrin NGC only assigned the coin an Au-58 grade and half of other coins were found to be either cleaned or with environment damage.  So, that is the reason why this time I opted to go with the economy tier of grading and without high expectations.  In fact, I would be delighted to pay the difference if NGC finds the coins to be worth more than their declared values.

Best wishes to both of you, Dan

Good Day.

The question I would like to ask you is not an easy one. In the good old days, that  would be before the Covid epidemic, I submitted my coins to NGC for grading using standard fees, which I believe we around $30 per coin. I just submitted another round of coins to NGC for grading this time using economy services of $23 per coin. 

I wanted to reach out to you with the following question. I have heard that PCGS is using only one grader for the economy category instead of the usual three graders. As I understand independent grading by multiple graders is now limited to premium coins in the standard category with declared value of $3,000 if I am not mistaken.

So, did I commit a cardinal sin by selecting the NGC economy category of services with a declared value of up to $300  for coins  some of which are more valuable than $300 IN TERMS of the grading service? In other words,  will my coins will be: one, graded by one person as opposed to three independent graders; and two, will my coins be looked down (graded lower) because I submitted them using the economy and not the standard submission category?  

Based on your experience, do you mind sharing  whether there is a direct correlation between coins' declared value and selected submission standard (economy as opposed to standard) and how NGS experts come up with the coins grade?

Thank you very much, Dan

On 9/19/2021 at 9:07 PM, Mohawk said:

Excellent.  They should do well in there.  And I'd be careful with any conservation with reactive metals like iron.  I've never seen what happens with iron, but I've seen a collector with some Polish zinc coins that didn't do so well with conservation.  They originally had some residue on them and the conservation got the residue off, but, man, were the coins ugly afterward!!! I'd hate to see something like that happen to your iron coins.  There are coins that conservation can help but there are also coins that conservation can annihilate. 

On 9/19/2021 at 9:07 PM, Mohawk said:

Excellent.  They should do well in there.  And I'd be careful with any conservation with reactive metals like iron.  I've never seen what happens with iron, but I've seen a collector with some Polish zinc coins that didn't do so well with conservation.  They originally had some residue on them and the conservation got the residue off, but, man, were the coins ugly afterward!!! I'd hate to see something like that happen to your iron coins.  There are coins that conservation can help but there are also coins that conservation can annihilate. 

Noted, Mohawk.  I myself have ruined some copper and silver coins and learned the lesson of staying away from coins experiments 

On 9/19/2021 at 7:31 PM, Mohawk said:

Hi Liverpool 4 Ever!!

Well, I've only owned a few Iron coins in my time as a collector and yours look very nice for iron.  I've seen very few older iron coins with no rust on them whatsoever and the rust on your coins is very, very light.  What I would do is honestly leave them be....they're attractive as they are.  If you could find an Airtite type holder that they would fit in, I'd definitely do that as it would help them stay out of the air.  But I think they're nice just as they are  

Thank you Mohawk.  Yes indeed, they are attractive as they are. Will move them to airtite round plastic holders 

RWB,  thank you again. Feel like I am at school asking questions and the answers come fast, furious and overwhelming. Here are the shots I just took of an iron coin which is a bit of rarity and needs some care. I have seen same coins with their original steely look, but they were worn down and I think they have been cleaned.  Aside from Mohawk's advise to keep them in airtite holders, would you recommend this coin for professional conservation with NGC?   Thanks 

On 9/19/2021 at 7:48 PM, RWB said:

The green stuff is one of several decomposition products of Di (2-ethylhexyl) phthalate (DOP) commonly used to make polyvinylchloride flexible. A trademarked product, Jayflex™ diisononyl phthalate (DINP) plasticizer, has replaced DOP is some applications. PVC without plasticizer is hard and brittle.

 

RWB, much appreciated!

On 9/19/2021 at 6:01 PM, Mohawk said:

TPRC is right.....it's PVC.  Acetone may help, but it's a mystery what's under the PVC.  Only one way to find out....soak it and see how bad it is under there.  Best of Luck!!

Thank you Mohawk.  I am learning a great deal from this board and from people like you and TPRC. 

Speaking about "problem" coins, I have another question this time regarding iron coins.  As you probably know, during the WWII Germany allies, Finland, Hungary and Bulgaria, plus few other occupied countries, such as Norway, minted iron coins as they run out of copper and other metals. Those iron coins were emergency coins and were not expected to last.  Nowadays, collecting pure iron coins in good conditions (as opposed to alloy covered iron coins) is somewhat challenging because of air exposure over time leading to coins oxidation.  I have few of those coins and I would be very thankful if you take a look at the attached photos and advise on possible coin conservations. Thank you   

TPRC, thank you very much. I followed you advise and placed it in a jar with acetone. Will post a shot of the coin after the acetone bath. Cheers 

This vintage Bulgarian silver coin has 835 silver content. it is in fairly good shape and would have eye appeal except for the green stuff on one side of the coin.  Not sure about to this greenish stuff and wonder whether this coin could be graded as it is or it needs conservation.  If, on the other hand, it is is a corrosion, then I would likely discard the coin. I  would appreciate hearing from you. Thank you    

MarkFeld, awesome explanation. Much obliged, Sir! 

5 minutes ago, Liverpool 4 ever said:

The above question was with regard of the quality of details. In a similar fashion, can NGC and PCGC not include a description of the cleaning itself, for example, lightly cleaned in the case of borderline cleaned coins? Thanks 

Markfeld, thank you for the thorough explanation. But how would you describe a borderline AU cleaned coin that has  AU+ details characteristics and is lightly cleaned?  Thanks  

The above question was with regard of the quality of details. In a similar fashion, can NGC and PCGC not include a description of the cleaning itself, for example, lightly cleaned in the case of borderline cleaned coins? Thanks 

Conder, Coinbuf and Markfeld, frankly I did not expect such an overwhelming response and I am very grateful to you all.  As I see it, cleaned coins graded AU present the biggest valuation challenge as some of them are borderline AU while others display low AUN characteristics.  I think all of you have observed that.  My question is this , why is that NGC, PGCM when they grade cleaned coins do not describe them by marking them AU - details, AU details and AU+ details?  Or it is too much to expect from the grading services?  Thank you  

Is there a way to know the value of graded but cleaned non - US coins?  Have collected over the years few old 1880s and 1890s larger thaler size coins from Bulgaria which are graded cleaned UNC or AU by NGC?  Please let me know if you have any experience with older European 18 and 19 centuries coins. Thank you