MarkVIIIMarc

These guys are not your friends. If they were mine I wouldn't associate with them any longer.

This is a good article someone posted back in page 1.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/1227/156.html

"He was dead center of his next misadventure after launching a coin grading agency, Numismatic Certification Institute, in 1984. It, too, went out of business, after the FTC found that Halperin was giving inflated grades to coins and marketing them through a Heritage-backed outfit called Certified Rare Coin Galleries. Using television ads to draw in victims, they sold high-grade silver and gold U.S. coins for more than twice what they would have fetched in more-reputable retail channels. Heritage agreed in 1989 to pay $1.2 million in restitution. The FTC also insisted that the company include a document with every NCI-assessed coin stating that it had been graded according to loose standards. Halperin shuttered NCI, but insists most of the grades he gave then would hold up on regrading today."

"Still, Halperin has found a way to exploit the system. In lieu of running his own grading agency, he has invested in them and, by his own admission, has made millions in capital gains over the years (the agencies process perhaps 60,000 coins a month). He and Ivy each own close to 12.5% of NGC, and Heritage recently bought a music memorabilia auction business from Collector’s Universe, the publicly traded company that owns PCGS and similar grading services for baseball cards and postage stamps."

Coinman you make some intelligent and salient points from your POV. Last post not withstanding ; )

 

For me I think they are in a grey area and I side on caution in favor of the entrepreneur. In this case I've come to know Daniel and I'm sure he is a good and knowledgable man. It's hurtful to me when people call him a counterfeiter. That is a label I think is venomous in light of the fact that it's not been proved so. It's cr@p

 

mark

I will disagree.

We do agree that he produces fantasy coins which look close enough to the real thing to fool a reasonable person?

Me, you and "the law" can decide if he can be punished for it. Just because has not been convicted does not mean he is innocent. Think about our politicans.

Are you hereby giving up your right to sue under any state's lemon law on something just because you didn't do your due diligence and inspect what kind of oil was in any vehicle you ever bought?

 

If you cared about faking people out you would obviously stamp all your coins. You are a skilled designer and could find a way to tastefully do it.

 

Sometimes my faith wavers. But if there is a good Lord he watches what you do at work.

 

Only six states have a "lemon law" for used cars: CT, MA, MN, NJ, NM, NY. If you live in any of the other 44 states and you buy a used car, you DEFINITELY have to perform your due diligence or you may very well get stuck with a "lemon" and without recourse. I reside in CO, so I would have nothing to "give up".

 

Also, a malfunctioning vehicle is a danger to the driver, passengers, and the general public. A malfunctioning coin is not. So they are completely different, except that "buyer beware" is generally the case with all things.

 

You do a fine job rationalizing why you can't figure out how to tastefully put your name on or mark your product sir. It stretches your logic a bit. It also makes me hope I don't let a penny out of my sight in front of a man like you.

 

FWIW, my analogies have been on if a bit extreme. Fruad is fraud. Thanks to your business coin newbs are one step further away from just being able to buy a piece of history without consulting the internet or an expert.

 

If that is the type of legacy you WANT to leave behind because you are too ashamed to put your name on your product so be it. I would be ashamed to be an offspring or business partner of yours so I understand.

 

"Buyer beware" is the most fitting epitaph for your marker according to your quotes.

 

What good would a "DC" mark do if a person refused to even research the relatively large DATE on the piece ?

The fantasy date IS the "signature".

Buddy, you do some good work. Don't be embarrassed to use put your name on them.

If I created an attractive coin I'd go Lord of the Rings and decorate the rim with MarkVIIIMarc, my name or my business name or whatever.

Then again maybe after getting beat up online by me and SOOO many others its understandable to be somewhat shy about using your name.

Are you hereby giving up your right to sue under any state's lemon law on something just because you didn't do your due diligence and inspect what kind of oil was in any vehicle you ever bought?

 

If you cared about faking people out you would obviously stamp all your coins. You are a skilled designer and could find a way to tastefully do it.

 

Sometimes my faith wavers. But if there is a good Lord he watches what you do at work.

 

Only six states have a "lemon law" for used cars: CT, MA, MN, NJ, NM, NY. If you live in any of the other 44 states and you buy a used car, you DEFINITELY have to perform your due diligence or you may very well get stuck with a "lemon" and without recourse. I reside in CO, so I would have nothing to "give up".

 

Also, a malfunctioning vehicle is a danger to the driver, passengers, and the general public. A malfunctioning coin is not. So they are completely different, except that "buyer beware" is generally the case with all things.

You do a fine job rationalizing why you can't figure out how to tastefully put your name on or mark your product sir. It stretches your logic a bit. It also makes me hope I don't let a penny out of my sight in front of a man like you.

FWIW, my analogies have been on if a bit extreme. Fruad is fraud. Thanks to your business coin newbs are one step further away from just being able to buy a piece of history without consulting the internet or an expert.

If that is the type of legacy you WANT to leave behind because you are too ashamed to put your name on your product so be it. I would be ashamed to be an offspring or business partner of yours so I understand.

"Buyer beware" is the most fitting epitaph for your marker according to your quotes.

So the people that buy from HSN, flea market, or estate sale (those most likely to fall prey) are going to be smart enough to check all of this online including your website? Moreover, you expect them to be experts in die diagnostics for Peace Dollars versus your pieces? With all due respect, that seems a bit far fetched to me. Nothing says that a piece must be an exact replica to be labeled a counterfeit. Courts have actually refuted that position multiple times.

 

A person that doesn't do their due diligence before spending their money is likely to get burned, whether it is buying a coin, a watch, a used car, hiring a handyman/contractor, etc.

 

The type of people you describe are far more likely to get burned buying a cleaned/polished coin sold as "UNC" than anything else in the coin arena.

 

But suppose somebody did pay $200 for a "1964-D" Peace Dollar ?

There are three possible outcomes:

1) The piece is of Chinese origin. They got burned - value is less than $20.

2) It is a "Carr" over-strike. Good for them - market value is about $300+.

3) The coin is a genuine original. They now have a coin that they can't legally posses or sell.

 

As I indicated previously, the "Carr 1964-D Peace Dollar" over-strikes have reached a level of notoriety such that they have achieved the status of a type of original numismatic item. They are well-known altered coins not "counterfeits".

Are you hereby giving up your right to sue under any state's lemon law on something just because you didn't do your due diligence and inspect what kind of oil was in any vehicle you ever bought?

If you cared about faking people out you would obviously stamp all your coins. You are a skilled designer and could find a way to tastefully do it.

Sometimes my faith wavers. But if there is a good Lord he watches what you do at work.

Interesting. I was my first exposure to this fraudster D.Carr.

Honestly some of his fiscal cliff coins are pretty funny and I wouldn't mind owning one.

The Military Industrial Complex token is priceless.

The need to make pretend dates of historic coins is just strange and does seem like it is or should be illegal.

Inserting pretend food into his cereal box or pretend pills into his heart medicine would be similar. Just like I can carry reference material with me and tell real from counterfeit coins he can carry around the scientific equipment needed to verify his cereal or blood pressure pills are real.

People should order his product with pretend credit cards and see what he says.

Oh man. I would LOVE to go metric. Math with measurements is soo much easier in that system.

Agreed that changing the grading scale would just take money out of the coin market and put it in the grading companies.