Question About Edge Lettering (on the Pres. Dollars)

[astrostu]

Lost of people are talking about the obverse, reverse, and about the edge lettering, but no one (that I saw) has mentioned this: The lettering on my coins is all different. It all says the same stuff, IN GOD WE TRUST · E PLURIBUS UNUM · 2007 D, but it does not seem to have a fixed position relative to the obverse/reverse design, and it is even sometimes right-side-up when looking at the coin obverse-up, and sometimes upside-down when looking at the coin obverse-up.

 

I'm assuming that this is because the edges are "punched" after the obv/rev, and so I can understand some twisting to get the lettering in different rotations, but I guess they're not even making an effort to get which way it reads the same?

 

Comments? Am I right, or do I have some "first, rare error" for this series?

[bsshog40]

NO this looks to be normal. Doesn't look like no consistency to where the letting is or if it's up or down? compared to the Obv or Rev.

[Cannon Coins]

The business strikes, due to the automated way they are fed into the edge lettering machine,which is the finale step before bagging and rolling,can be located anywhere on the edge.It depends how they roll into the slot that rolls them through the edge lettering machine. The proofs will be different so I have read. They will get the lettering during the stamping stage and the three piece collar that holds the blank in place will press the lettering in the same place on each proof coin.Suposedly, there will also be noticeable lines where the three pieces of the collar meet each other.These are things I have read. CC

[astrostu]

Alright. It upsets my OCD, though, to see the lettering not lining up in my tube even though I know I aligned ol' George's head on all of them ...

[Cannon Coins]

...take another pill Monk... the Proofs will make you happy.... CC

[NoTwilight]

Alright. It upsets my OCD, though, to see the lettering not lining up in my tube even though I know I aligned ol' George's head on all of them ...

 

I'd be glad to introduce you to my ex wife...sounds like a match...unless likes start repelling...

[astrostu]

Okay, I was exaggerating a little bit.

[Beijim]

Cannon Coins is exactly correct on both business strike and proof coin production details. See the current (February 26 dated) Coin World cover story titled "Mint engineers meet challenge - Adapt edge lettering equipment for Presidential coins" for a complete explanation with photographs of the edge lettering press and other production equipment.

 

Bottom line: on the business strike coins, edge lettering can appear in any rotational and obverse/reverse orientation.

 

Beijim

[CarlWohlforth]

I was pretty interested to learn that these coins get the edges stamped after minting. The mint thinks the lettering might be right side up or upside down randomly. I wonder if there is something in the process that will make one orientation happen more than the other? If it is truly random we will see %50 each way...

[Beijim]

I wonder if there is something in the process that will make one orientation happen more than the other?

I believe not. The coins get dumped (literally) into large wheeled hoppers after striking, then Mint staff move the hoppers to the edge lettering press. This alone probably ensures the orientation is effectively random (since I don't believe there's any mechanism during edge lettering press loading to check orientation). It also accounts in large measure for the crappy quality everyone's observing.

 

Beijim

[gedis3]

Not only will +/-50% have the edge letters upside down, they could "start" anywhere along the edge, leaving open the "Mint Mark at 2 o'clock, Mint Mark at 4 o'clock, etc. varieties.

 

Interesting, but interesting enough to encourage collecting varieties?

 

Or is it too much? -- Causing you to have 24 coins from each mint x 40+ coins to cover the entire spectrum?

[cpm9ball]

The problem with random placement of the edge lettering is that NGC (or any other TPGS) may not be able to guarantee a proper alignment of the coin (the obverse in an upright position) in their new holder and still reveal the edge lettering.

 

Chris

[just carl]

HMMMM. This is interesting. I thought the reason the lettering was different was because the Mint hired people to sit there and write the lettering on the edge of each coin one at a time. Now that I've heard it is done by machines, that make the value a little less don't you think.

[astrostu]

Interesting, but interesting enough to encourage collecting varieties?

 

Or is it too much? -- Causing you to have 24 coins from each mint x 40+ coins to cover the entire spectrum?

 

I thought about that for about 3 seconds before deciding solidly NO, it is not worth it.

[DC Dawg]

Not only will +/-50% have the edge letters upside down, they could "start" anywhere along the edge, leaving open the "Mint Mark at 2 o'clock, Mint Mark at 4 o'clock, etc. varieties.

 

Interesting, but interesting enough to encourage collecting varieties?

 

Or is it too much? -- Causing you to have 24 coins from each mint x 40+ coins to cover the entire spectrum?

During the coining process, the press strikes the planchet to make the coin and ejects them. Theoretically, they should be heads-side up as they drop to the conveyor to go to the edge press.Theoretically, you should see more coins where the top of the letters point to the obverse than the reverse. But in my experience last week, I found 14 with the edge lettering with the tops point to the reverse and only 11 with the tops pointing to the obverse.

 

Scott

[NoTwilight]

Okay, I was exaggerating a little bit.

 

That''s what I assumed. Well played humor.

[Conder101]

During the coining process, the press strikes the planchet to make the coin and ejects them. Theoretically, they should be heads-side up as they drop to the conveyor to go to the edge press.

Since they all come out of the press the same way I would expect a chance for a slight bias of one over the other, but the coins do not come out and drop onto a conveyor, they drop into a hopper. This allows some of them to fall so that they flip over. then that hopper is dumped into another bin that feeds the edge lettering machine which tends to further randomize them. If hoppers from several presses are dumped into one larger hopper which is then dumped into the feeder then they are randomized even more. The more times the coins get dumped or dropped the closer the distribution will be to 50/50.

[cpm9ball]

I ordered a $1000 box from a local credit union. It should arrive today or tomorrow, and I will be very curious to see the results after I've opened some of the rolls.

 

On another note........................................I thought dumping was illegal......................

 

Chris