Out with First Strike in with Early Releases

[saen78]

web page :

[Zoins]

Here's the NGC announcement. It says:

Steven Eichenbaum, CEO of Numismatic Guaranty Corporation comments: “We believe that Early Releases best fits the needs of our customers and fulfills our mission of service and support to the numismatic community. NGC is the world’s largest grading service, but we remain very responsive to the needs of the hobby." To date, NGC has graded over 2 million American Eagle and American Buffalo coins combined.

While some would like to see shipping-based designations go away entirely, some of NGC's largest customers may want and need this feature. NGC also can't completely get rid of it while something like it is being done ATS.

 

I think this is a reasonable compromise for providing a service to their customers while being responsible to the numismatic community.

[gmarguli]

I don't really care for that designation. It's not catchy and it's not necessarily an "early release". Perhaps something like Early Strike or First Release would have been better?

[MarkFeld]

Here's the NGC announcement. It says:

Steven Eichenbaum, CEO of Numismatic Guaranty Corporation comments: “We believe that Early Releases best fits the needs of our customers and fulfills our mission of service and support to the numismatic community. NGC is the world’s largest grading service, but we remain very responsive to the needs of the hobby." To date, NGC has graded over 2 million American Eagle and American Buffalo coins combined.

While some would like to see shipping-based designations go away entirely, some of NGC's largest customers may want and need this feature. NGC also can't completely get rid of it while something like it is being done ATS.

 

I think this is a reasonable compromise for providing a service to their customers while being responsible to the numismatic community.

While certain customers/sellers might WANT such designations, they certainly don't NEED them. Also, at this point, whatever actions NGC takes with respect to these designations, they are likely to be based upon legal considerations, not what is being done "ATS" or elsewhere by another competitor.

[Dcoin]

Speaking of “largest customers”…it’s only a matter of time now before these pop up on the Coin Vault for $199. Even though collectors would love to get rid of these labels, NGC is not going to upset their cash cow. Money talks!

 

Dcoin

[Zoins]

While certain customers/sellers might WANT such designations, they certainly don't NEED them.

Thanks for correcting my mistake. I think certain large volume sellers may want those designations enough that they may go ATS if NGC doesn't offer something like it.

Also, at this point, whatever actions NGC takes with respect to these designations, they are likely to be based upon legal considerations, not what is being done "ATS" or elsewhere by another competitor.

'How' they keep the program alive is done with legal considerations, however 'why' they keep the program has to do with profits, satisfying customers and the competitive landscape.

[MarkFeld]

'How' they keep the program alive is done with legal considerations, however 'why' they keep the program has to do with profits, satisfying customers and the competitive landscape.

Well put.

[Mirrored Morgan]

I don't really care for that designation. It's not catchy and it's not necessarily an "early release". Perhaps something like Early Strike or First Release would have been better?

 

 

"First Release" does fit this designation more that anything else I have heard.

[Hoot]

While certain customers/sellers might WANT such designations, they certainly don't NEED them.

 

Ain't that the truth.

 

'How' they keep the program alive is done with legal considerations, however 'why' they keep the program has to do with profits, satisfying customers and the competitive landscape.

Well put.

 

Ditto.

 

Personally, I wish the TPGs would have the gumption to drop this stupidity in its entirety. Despite what they say, this does not serve the "needs" of the collecting community in the least, only the pocketbooks of sharks acting therein.

 

Hoot

[James_OldeTowne]

All right, the "First Strike" was a pretty extreme fiasco, in my opinion. But "Early Releases" sounds a bit ridicuolus (sorry, NGC), not in the sense of a numismatic faux pas, but just a worthless, meaningless term.

 

Golly, why not use something useful such as "Well Struck" instead? That would actually be a meaningful term for someone who collects coins.

[robertpr-migration]

Well, if they wanted truely to serve the needs of the numismatic community, the best way to do it would be to provide more education to collectors, particularly new ones, not marketing gimmicks or ploys. It is unfortunate that the services are so focused on short term profits that they cannot see that education is the way to increase long term profits by creating lifetime customers; silly marketing ploys are the best way to destroy long term profits by souring the collecting experience thus potentially eroding the long term potential customer base.

 

"Early Releases" doesn't even have the catchiness that "First Strikes" does, and just reeks of desperation for additional designation fees. I think the time has come to give a rest to the gimmicks and get back to doing what the services do best.

[Zoins]

I don't have a lot of information on how these programs were initially started but my impression is that NGC was backed into a corner by ATS and the market. ATS created this program and customers wanted it. NGC filed a petition to have ATS stop but failed. So it turned into a "if you can't beat them, join them" kind of thing from a business perspective.

 

ATS did a First Strike program with the Paris Mint in 2004 where they had ATS employees on hand at the Paris Mint attributing coins as they were made. Apparently the inserts were numbered according to what order the coin was struck. These were from the early life of the die and thus consistent with the definition on their Lingo page at the time. Perhaps they realized people liked the concept so much that instead of not pursuing the program when they couldn't have people on site at the US Mint, they changed the definition?

 

Is this how it happened or did it happen differently?

[GAB]

WHATEVER !!

I can't believe many people will be willing to pay a big premium for this.

I also doubt that many "sharks" will send in there UNOPENED sets to get this

designation. I can only imagine the grades some of the stuff that I've returned to the mint over the years would have received!!

[Zoins]

I can't believe many people will be willing to pay a big premium for this.

I used to think this but now I'm not so sure. Certainly people pay big premiums for early graded 70s on eBay before initial wave of submissions has been completed and the early ones happen to be FS, but are they paying for the 70, FS or both? Does the FS 70 hold value over a non-FS 70 on the secondary market say one, two, three years down the road when both are available with relatively stable pops?

 

A little while ago I took a look at realized eBay auction prices for PCGS FS MS69 and FS PR69 ASEs. For the most part, they seemed to sell for less than the US Mint individual price + non-bulk grading fee. This seems to indicate that there's no, or little, premium for a FS designation in the secondary market. Also, perhaps it's just the people on HSN who buy FS that are paying more than what the coins are worth but they do that for non-FS coins too.

 

The FS program seems similar to the HSN 2004 state silver quarter set recently posted by MAULEMALL (excellent post and pics!) with the main difference being FS is on the insert and in the registry. This silver quarter set seems to be the case where people pay more when ordering directly from HSN (isn't everything from there more expensive?) and the prices are more realistic on the secondary market. However, it would be better if there wasn't even a comparison to be made between TPG designations and HSN certificates.

[WoodenJefferson]

WHATEVER !!

I can't believe many people will be willing to pay a big premium for this.

I also doubt that many "sharks" will send in there UNOPENED sets to get this

designation. I can only imagine the grades some of the stuff that I've returned to the mint over the years would have received!!

 

Coins being sent directly to NGC do not need to be accompanied by original packaging or shipped in sealed mint boxes, but must arrive within the time period described above. The pedigree request must be noted on the submission invoice, and additional service fees apply for the special label and document recording...this really makes it easy for the sharks to swim around the prey. It's going to be another feeding frenzy!

[gmarguli]

Speaking of “largest customers”…it’s only a matter of time now before these pop up on the Coin Vault for $199. Even though collectors would love to get rid of these labels, NGC is not going to upset their cash cow. Money talks!

 

Aren't these contradictory? If collectors wanted to get rid of these labels then the largest customers would not be buying them.

 

I personally put zero value on the designation. However, I'm strongly considering submitting a "Green Monster Box" of Silver Eagles. The marketplace - who knows why - likes this designation and puts a premium on it.

[LuvToCollect]

I suppose these designations satisfy the needs of the new collector. As a relative new collector myself I don't get it but evidently it makes enough money for the TPG's to keep it alive. I know I cant fault them because if they don't sell them someone else will take the money.

[FLCoins-migration]

What's going to happen to all the First Strikes that released?

[Beijim]

What's going to happen to all the First Strikes that released?

Nothing. Please see the bottom of this NGC informational article for details.

 

Basically only the designation goes away. Coins already holdered with the designation count in registry sets just as they always have and continue to command a premium in the market (based on recent eBay activity). Who knows - perhaps such coins will continue to sell at a premium because their labels are now historical curiosities?

 

One question to which I don't know the answer is what will happen should you submit a FIRST STRIKES coin to NGC for reholdering or other service (such as Appearance Review or Regrade) that requires a reholder. It would be nice if you retained the FIRST STRIKES designation (for what it's worth) rather than losing it.

 

Regards,

Beijim

[cpm9ball]

Sorry, but I associate early releases with ex-cons.

 

Chris

[gmarguli]

One question to which I don't know the answer is what will happen should you submit a FIRST STRIKES coin to NGC for reholdering or other service (such as Appearance Review or Regrade) that requires a reholder. It would be nice if you retained the FIRST STRIKES designation (for what it's worth) rather than losing it.

 

Based on what happens if you submit a coin with a (W) or (T) designation, I'd say First Strike gets replaces with Early Release.

[Coin]

Sorry, but I associate early releases with ex-cons.

 

Chris

 

[LuvToCollect]

Unfortunately as long as folks buy them they will keep selling the. We know the old deal about wants and needs and how far apart they are.

I don't need 33 St. Gaudens but I sure would like to have one.

[Zoins]

Someone across the street mentioned "Registry Quality" which I thought was pretty funny.

[just-john]

The TV coin guys are now hawking box numbered ?to box 40 like it's something special.

Are people that dumb don't they know that 10's of thousands by the mint in orders from 1

to100 and more ship ecery day =box numbers mean nothing/ My order from the mint for my eagles this year came with the order#xxxxxxxx-001 will NGC put that on my slabs can i then sell them for more/well maybe to a fool?