Are coins with MS 68, 69 or grades really worth big premiums?

[291fifth]

Are coins graded MS68 or 69 really worth the big premiums charged for them? My own feeling is an emphatic NO! The typical collector is probably in his 40's or older. His eyesight is not what is was when he first started collecting. Unless he uses high magnification he probably can't tell the difference between 67, 68 or 69. The premiums being paid for these coins seem more a function of ego than true value.

[gmarguli]

No. Too many MS68s are just MS67s that have been resubmitted enough times or got graded during an easy period.

 

Look at all the wonder coins coming out of PCG$ right now. PR68 early Jeffersons are multiplying. Why spend 10X the money of an PR67 when you know that the coin resided in a PR67 slab just a few weeks earlier. What exactly are you buying?

 

I've always figured that if you can't tell the difference between the grade you want and the lower grade, then you should buy the lower grade.

 

Personally, I won't consider MS68 coins for my collection because I can't justify the price difference for 1 or 2 small marks. Is 1 less mark really worth 1500% more money? Not to me...

 

[michael]

well i am not going to include the gaga grades of 69 and 70

 

as it pertains to ms/proof 68 coins pre 1950 coins

 

IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE SPECIFIC COIN PER SAY

 

 

you cant say yes or no you first have to look at the coin

 

now the current ms68* star ngc halfdime 1860 that i have personally seen and examined this ms68 is worth strong money in this holder as it is a true 68 and has monster extraordinary incredible color flash and blast the eye appeal is amazing but this is per a sight seen basis

 

are other ms/proof68 coins wannabees in holders??

 

DUH I HAVE NO DOUBT

 

but i could say that about ms/proof 67 66 65 64 63 also

 

but againb the aqbove is only for pre 1950 ms/proof68 coins only

 

i do not believe in gaga 69 70 grades for pre 1950 coins

 

are there exceptions to the rules? i am sure but i would not want to pay any huge premium for any 69 70 pre 1950 coins

 

sincerely michael

[braddick]

On most coins, no- not really. On others? Well, some of the clad issues, the MS68's are a big deal. I just picked up a (PCGS) clad Kennedy in MS68 and it truly is outstanding compared to MS67's.

 

MS69 State quarters are little GEMS to behold too and command big premiums over their MS68 counterparts.

[keithdagen]

MS69 State quarters are little GEMS to behold too and command big premiums over their MS68 counterparts.

 

Assuming they're properly graded. Last example I saw at Heritage was a solid MS-67 in a 69 holder. Grader was asleep that day.

[gmarguli]

MS69 State quarters are little GEMS to behold too and command big premiums over their MS68 counterparts.

 

Assuming they're properly graded. Last example I saw at Heritage was a solid MS-67 in a 69 holder. Grader was asleep that day.

 

Gotta agree on this. I've discussed this with a few people who examined some PCG$ MS69 state quarters. They either REALLY relaxed their grading standards for them or the grader fell asleep on a couple of days. From what I have seen and heard (from people I trust and they KNOW how to grade), I'd say at least 1/3 of the state quarters in PCG$ MS69 are overgraded. None of those include ones made in the last 2 months.

[Leothelion]

Are coins graded MS68 or 69 really worth the big premiums charged for them?

They do if you have a registry set and if you have a bias desire to be top dog with 3rd party graded coins for a coin collection. In reality, it's money and the certification graders who are assembling these registry sets not the collectors.

 

Leo

[coinman1794]

They ARE worth big premiums if you buy the coin and not the holder. Don't pay the label price before you make sure the coin fits the bill. An 68/69 coin is worth the premium, but an MS68/69 label isn't! This advice covers the whole spectrum of grading because there are plenty of over-graded coins at every grade level, not just in 68 and 69!

 

Keith,

 

About that MS69 quarter you saw in the Heritage sale. You have brought it up several times and I have been meaning to ask. Now, I didn't see the coin in person so bare with me, but, is it possible the marks you saw were the little indents from strike-throughs that absolutely plagued the 2002 quarters? I have seen a number of PCGS-68's that have these pockmarks, and I know they are disconcerting at first glance because they closely resemble abraisions, until you realize they are as struck and do not effect the grade. Is it possible that these are what you saw on the MS69 quarter?

[pmh1nic]

No. The things that differentiate an ACCURATELY GRADE 68 from a 69 are miniscule. IMHO those differences aren't worth a 10X+ premium.

[braddick]

They ARE worth big premiums if you buy the coin and not the holder. Don't pay the label price before you make sure the coin fits the bill. An 68/69 coin is worth the premium, but an MS68/69 label isn't! This advice covers the whole spectrum of grading because there are plenty of over-graded coins at every grade level, not just in 68 and 69!

 

Keith,

 

About that MS69 quarter you saw in the Heritage sale. You have brought it up several times and I have been meaning to ask. Now, I didn't see the coin in person so bare with me, but, is it possible the marks you saw were the little indents from strike-throughs that absolutely plagued the 2002 quarters? I have seen a number of PCGS-68's that have these pockmarks, and I know they are disconcerting at first glance because they closely resemble abraisions, until you realize they are as struck and do not effect the grade. Is it possible that these are what you saw on the MS69 quarter?

That's actually a great question as I've seen these pock marks too (Mint made and caused) and didn't believe they distracted the graders. My MS68 Kennedy has three of them on the chin- little smooth, almost perfectly round indents- obviously NOT post mint made (ticks or contact marks).

 

Admittingly, I've only seen ONE MS69 State quarter and it belonged to Mitch (Wondercoin) and was "all there" as far as grade.

I would think these multi-thousand dollar State quarters are a SIGHT SEEN coin to buy only.

[lazeroo]

I almost didn't even want to reply to this thread.

 

I have many ms68 rd lincolns in my registry set and I have to tell you I'm 48 an my eye's are bad, hehe.

 

BUT!! there is positivly something about the coins that set them apart.the 50-s lincoln I have probably has a very few dinks, but the coin has a color that is wonderful.IE awsome!

 

I have never seen another like it . price tag 3000$.

 

the others are very nice as well.

I believe the buyers for these coins will dry up as they approach 5000$ and hopefuly they will sell then .

 

some of you can't figure out why we would buy a coin that expensive. some will never believe there that nice.the controversy will never end!

 

 

but for me there all that

 

and guess what? all but a few are NGC COINS

 

ROB.

[keithdagen]

Keith,

 

About that MS69 quarter you saw in the Heritage sale. You have brought it up several times and I have been meaning to ask. Now, I didn't see the coin in person so bare with me, but, is it possible the marks you saw were the little indents from strike-throughs that absolutely plagued the 2002 quarters? I have seen a number of PCGS-68's that have these pockmarks, and I know they are disconcerting at first glance because they closely resemble abraisions, until you realize they are as struck and do not effect the grade. Is it possible that these are what you saw on the MS69 quarter?

 

coinman1794,

 

It is possible that the marks in question were struck through fragments on the coin, but it would be the first time I have ever seen fragments that were so microscopically thin as to appear like regular tick marks. I've got tons of coins, especially moderns, with struck fragments on them, so I'm used to differentiating between the two.

 

I've seen half a dozen MS-69 quarters, and there was a difference in the grading. Someone out there got lucky and is trying to profit off of it.

[michael]

for ms69 ultra modern coins lets say A STAtE QUARTER graded pcgs

 

could someone give me a SPECIFIC example of this above coin that is graded ms69 in the pcgs holder what the coinS selling price is?

 

and if broken out of its respective holder and sold raw this former ms69 specific coin!! what would be a reasonable retail selling price of this coin if raw??

 

sincerely michael

[cladking]

There really is no reasonable selling or buying price for a raw MS-69 state quarter, or bust quarter. People simply don't buy and sell such coins raw and this is especially true for the states coin. Until recently most price guides only went up to MS-65 for most moderns and then listed a typical unc price. Indeed for years it was possible to wholesale MS-60 coins at much higher prices than the listed retail for MS-65!! It's not impossible a knowledgeable buyer and seller would negotiate a price on raw MS-69 states coins, but there is great inherent risk to both parties because of the spread at these levels and not knowing if the coin will grade at this level with certainty. The buyer will have to be concerned the coin might go 68 and make his offer accordingly. The seller is unlikely to be willing to accept a significantly lower price if he is certain it will go 69. It should be remembered that the market for coins like this is extremely thin compared to coins like the bust quarter. Not only are fewer coins being traded but they are being traded at far lower prices. There is a mass market in some of these moderns developing but this market is for typical and choice coins, not the very high grades. This market also tends to be at prices which are near face value. Usually when a raw MS-69 changes hands it is contained in a much larger deal of more typical coins and neither party is even aware it is there.

[coinman1794]

The fact that a raw coin sells for less than certified is more a reflection of people's fear of getting taken than it is of the value of any coin in any particular grade. With all raw coins today, not just MS69 State Quarters, people have to ask "why isn't that coin certified if it is expensive/high-grade etc. It's this notion that causes a lack of interest in raw coins in general. And, because there isn't nearly as much of a raw coin market anymore, the value of something raw really isn't an issue here. The world of coins for the most part, especially moderns, is a certified coin world. People are afraid to buy anything raw because certified coins are much safer. It's the comfort provided by a 3rd party opinion that makes graded coins more acceptable than raw. Whether or not they are accurately graded is another story, entirely.

 

People won't pay the same price for a raw coin because they just don't believe you when you tell them it's a 69, it’s not because the coin isn't awesome. In other words, the coin is worth the money, but no one is willing to take the risk on a raw 69 quarter when they can buy one that already made the grade. It’s not a good business decision. And, this problem stems from grading inconsistency. The coin is worth the money, but people know that the grading service can get it wrong and then they will loose out. If grading were consistent, this wouldn't be a problem and people could buy raw state quarters with confidence.

 

In a round about way, I have laid out two reasons why I don't think it is relevant, to this discussion, the value of raw vs. certified coins. I would rather focus on the question, "Is it worth it to pay such a premium for a 69 when a 68, to most people, is virtually identical?" The issue of certified vs. raw is a separate issue, entirely, that deals with the cause and effect of grading services on the coin market, not the value of 68 vs. 69.

 

Just a thought... a very, very long thought !

[cladking]

Coinman1794: I agree with you points and the thought but would rephrase one point; It is not so much inconsistency in grading which often makes it a crappe shoot as it is a lack of defined standards and the nature of market grading.

 

Most people will generally agree that an MS-69 coin is a little better than an MS-68 most of the time. Those who can't tell a difference should certainly go with the less expensive coin, otherwise they are buying the sizzle instead of the steak. There is great doubt that they will ever be able to get their money back out of the sizzle. There is also a very high probability that they will get the smallest steak with the loudest sizzle, since these people are seen coming and steak is expensive.

[pmh1nic]

Cladking

 

"It is not so much inconsistency in grading which often makes it a crappe shoot as it is a lack of defined standards and the nature of market grading."

 

Actually the lack of defined standards is on of the reasons for the inconsistency.

 

"Those who can't tell a difference should certainly go with the less expensive coin."

 

I would venture to say that you could put together ten of the best graders in the country and have them each examine ten coins that were determined by one grader to be a mix of MS-68 and MS-69 and I'd be very surprised if you saw better than maybe 50~60% consistency among them regarding the grades. That's my guess. I'd like to hear the opinion of others.

[cladking]

Hence, buy the less expensive coin when you can't tell them apart! It will save you a lot of money sometimes and there's no gaurantee that there will be a market for sizzle when you go to sell anyway.

[Leothelion]

Hence, buy the less expensive coin when you can't tell them apart! It will save you a lot of money sometimes and there's no gaurantee that there will be a market for sizzle when you go to sell anyway.

 

Better yet, just buy the coin RAW!

 

Leo

[pmh1nic]

Clad

 

My point was who can accurately and consistantly tell them apart? My guess is my little test would prove even the very best of the professionals couldn't.

[cladking]

I'm still trying to learn the way that third party graders grade. I've seen enough different coins in enough different slabs to know that there is a great deal I don't know. I do know that I can't consistently tell an MS-68 from an MS-69, but I also know that one or the other will always look better and it's usually the 69.

[msmhappy]

 

 

The coins are worth it, if, you want it!!!!

 

 

If YOU want a certain coin, in a certain grade, then,

YOU will pay the price!!

 

I've said it before and I will say it again.......

 

It's SUPPLY AND DEMAND!!!!!!!!......

 

And, NO. The premium prices that are being paid for coins ( especially moderns)

is,,,, aaaa, well,,,,,....ummmm.. maybe those people should just give me the money!!

 

mike

 

--------------------------------

 

dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pmh1nic]

Cladking

 

I think NGC is hiring .

[cladking]

 

I think NGC is hiring .

 

 

ROFL. ...and everyone thinks there are problems now...