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This was a major score on ebay. I was the only bidder. It looks like another crusty ancient, but it is in fact a very rare error. A totally retrograde Pontius Pilate prutah. Only one other coin from this die is known to exist, and this one is the best known example. Paid $50.00. I'd say its about a $500.00 coin.

 

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The thing about that Pilate coin is the seller didn't know what he had and didn't list it in his description. People just saw a crusty coin and didn't bother looking at it. And, it is a fresh find, recently dug up in Israel.

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news.gif The Daily Mirror has just run a artical today that there is going to be a sale of Shipwreck coins Estmated a £2,000,000 this year in london !!
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sign-offtopic.gif I will find the paper that i seen it in at work today and post the infomation hear tomorrow .......Whoops its 1am best go to bed i have to be up in five hours foreheadslap.gif
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news.gif The Daily Mirror has just run a artical today that there is going to be a sale of Shipwreck coins Estmated a £2,000,000 this year in london !!

 

Any potential buyer of this material needs to be careful. Most of the coins I have seen at auction are Spanish colonial pillars and mainly 8R. I collect pillars but would not consider most of these coins because most of them are corroded from the exposure to salt water. Many of these have also been improperly cleaned to improve the appearance and remove encrustation. You will not be able to get them graded by NGC or PCGS which substantilaly reduce their future marketability.

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NGC has graded shipwreck/salt-water corroded coins. They coined the term "shipwreck effect". And, in regards to marketability, if a reale is from an ID'd shipwreck, it adds a premium. There is a larger market for shipwreck coins compared to other cobs.

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Ya know, I might be wrong about there being a larger market for shipwreck reales. Just depends on what you collect. I do know if you have a VF Pillar and Waves reale worth, lets say, $150.00, that same cob would be worth more if it had provenance to a shipwreck from the 1715 fleet.

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NGC has graded shipwreck/salt-water corroded coins. They coined the term "shipwreck effect". And, in regards to marketability, if a reale is from an ID'd shipwreck, it adds a premium. There is a larger market for shipwreck coins compared to other cobs.

 

You are correct that most "treasure"coins are cobs. That was my error. As for grading, I have seen US coins as you state but never seen a cob or pillar from a shipwreck in an NGC slab. Presumably, the US coins salvaged from a wreck such as the SS Central America were either conserved or did not suffer damage because all of the ones I have seen in an NGC slab are high quality.

 

That is not the case for cobs or pillars. Almost all of them are lower quality than a comporable cob that is not a "treasure" coin in the same condition (which is poor enough to begin with) and I would find it hard to believe that NGC would put most (or any) of them in a holder with even this designation.

 

In terms of marketability, according to the "Practical Book of Cobs" by Daniel Sedwick, most of the buyers of these coins are not collectors which is why they overpay for them. If you own such a coin, go ahead and sell it to one of these buyers but serious collectors would not pay any premium at all. Ponterio has occasional auctions with these coins and they sell at a discount whether they are pillars or cobs because of the lower quality.

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but serious collectors would not pay any premium at all

 

Who gets to decide what a serious collector is? I know a collector who recently paid over $25,000 for a 1715 fleet Escudo. Call me crazy, but I would bet he is a bit more serious than you. As far as Sedwick goes, his father really knew his stuff, but Jr. buys most of his inventory off of ebay. Anyone who knows anything about shipwreck material coinsiders Dan Jr. a joke.

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Fine, go ahead and point to an anecdotal example if you want. There are not that many 1715 escudos so yes, I can see someone paying a lot of money for a coin like that. But most of the fleet or Treasure coins are not like this one but are 8R which are low quality and are widely available.

 

The issue which I was addressing was not whether any treasure coin would sell for a lot of money or not but that a coin of the same condition and rarity would generally sell for less if it was a treasure coin because it will usually be inferior. So there is no reason to pay a premium for it. Anyone who wants to pay a premium is basically doing so for the certificate which frequently accompanies them.

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So there is no reason to pay a premium for it. Anyone who wants to pay a premium is basically doing so for the certificate which frequently accompanies them.

 

 

Saying there is no reason to pay a premium for it sounds a lot like the toning debate. I'm surprised you think people are paying for the certificate. Thats not the reason I think people do it. I think people do it for the history. I could show you images of reales from shipwrecks and you would have no idea they were from a shipwreck unless someone told you or you saw the paperwork. Mint state reales that have been in the ocean for almost 400 years. The "H" series of Atocha coins were found still in their chests. The coins deep in the chests are some of the nicest reales you will ever see. Of course the coins scattered across the sea floor will show the the wear of the sea, but to say they are all that way is way off base and not true.

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smile.gif I could only afford 2% of what was offered to me this week, so I'll bet there's still a few nice ones left out there! I'll post my new Northumberland in your honor when it arrives.
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Alas, as much as I'd like to report a choice uncirculated example of one of the Earl of Northumberland's shillings, it is not to be. It may be Conder tokens here on out for me!

 

MergedNorthumberland17a.jpg

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Yo Yarm. Nice token mate best condition one i have seen for a long while.. Have you seen the price of some of the rubbish condition ones on eBay latley !!!!

 

Whats going on between his legs never seen the stripes before on one !!

 

Check out my new Token NOT as pretty as yours but is the only one ever found picked it up from my local coin shop yesterday and dates from the 1850s

 

Wm DAVIDSON CHEMIST DRUGGIST & c BONDGATE St ALNWICK

TEAS.COFFEE.SPICES.PICKLES.OILS &c

 

STATIONER BOOKSELLER & BOOKBINDER NOSTRUMS & PERFUMES

ENGRAVER AND PRINTER IN GENERAL

 

Gosh they new how to multi task then eh!

 

I know that it looks grubby but it is being sent to be conserved then to NGC to get slabbed A little bit of history saved !!!!

 

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Edited by dooly
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You know, my first thought was to return that Northumberland token because of the "scratches" but they are raised lines such as might result from filing a die. Perhaps there are multiple dies used to produce the various tokens with the sailor, but quite a few have the same raised die marks between the legs (another example from Dr. Sriro's CD below.)

 

I haven't bought any Conders of note off Ebay for a while but the prices seem to be all over the lot.

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There seems to be much less interest in the 19th century tokens perhaps because they aren't as artistic as many of the Conders. Nevertheless, the price is often too low to for me to pass up!

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Not necessarily an acquistion, but a new coin I don't believe I had come across yet while going through an assortment of world coins.

 

An 188* coin but that is as far as I have gotten.

 

Any assistance is welcome.

 

Rey

 

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IMG_0375.jpg*

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Hi there thats a nice condition British shilling of Queen victoria from the Jubilee head group

 

Check out the last 8 in the date as there are 8 over 7's known of this coin

 

hope thats some help

dooly hi.gif

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Dooley,

 

I'll be *^$P%& you are correct, there is evidence of a 7 under the 8. thumbsup2.gif

 

Well, well. Thank you for the tip off on that one, I owe you. thumbsup2.gif

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