RE: Re: re: r: : ...

[ronday]

Am I the only one that has noticed that the Journals seem to keep rehashing the PCGS vs NGC question?

 

It never seems to get much traction here, but is a recurrent theme on there.

 

So ....

 

I thought I would start a thread here in the hope of keeping it out of the Journals

 

Any way, my take owning about 150 slabbed coins from NGC, PCGS and ICG is that I really do not see much of a difference in the coins that actually make it into a slab from one to the next. I have crossed some, but they only seem to cross when I break them out of the slabs.

[James_OldeTowne]

I have a theory about that. Those who are "PCGS-centric" must, just simply MUST, rationalize the premium they pay for that particular brand, so that's why they keep rehashing this so-called "debate". I've said it before, there's not a lot of difference between how the two companies grade, and ultimately if you buy the coin and not the holder, then WHO CARES?

 

The dumbest statement that can be made in this so-called "debate" is:

 

"PCGS coins sell for more"

 

because what that really means is that:

 

PCGS coin cost you more

 

The biggest difference between the two brands that I see can be summed up in one simple four-letter word:

 

HYPE

 

James

[HaydenTubbs]

 

PCGS coin costs you more

 

 

Exactly...

[WinstonWare]

Holder shmolder...I'd rather buy a beauty in a pci slab than a piece of [embarrassing lack of self control] in an NGC or PCGS holder.

[Brotherman]

My dad always said, “Belief is more important than fact.”

 

People are motivated by their beliefs and not facts. They will even create facts

to support their beliefs. Marketing and advertising people know this - just

watch any commercial. For example, the fact is that automobiles are made

of mostly steel, plastic, and glass and are designed to transport people from

one point to another. The right marketing has convinced the public that some

are sexy, some are prestigious, and some are worth more - hundreds of

thousands of dollars even.

PCGS doesn’t do a better job at grading than NGC or ANACS – I don’t know

about ICG but let’s give them the benefit of doubt for this argument. PCGS

HAS done a better job of marketing their product. Until a rival company

out maneuvers them in this area they will keep getting the top prices.

 

Hays

[Regis44]

My dad always said, “Belief is more important than fact.”

 

Until a rival company

out maneuvers them in this area they will keep getting the top prices.

 

Hays

And what if I'm holding the overpriced coin when they move to 2nd or 3rd place??

 

Regis

[Brotherman]

My dad always said, “Belief is more important than fact.”

 

Until a rival company

out maneuvers them in this area they will keep getting the top prices.

 

Hays

And what if I'm holding the overpriced coin when they move to 2nd or 3rd place??

 

Regis

 

That's the rub, isn't it?

I'm not sure PCGS is about to be unseated just yet. ANACS just did a

bonehead move by changing their holders, so I doubt they are a threat. NGC

has the greatest chance in my opinion but I don’t know what their strategies

are.

I know the old guys always say “buy the coin and not the holder” and that

would be great advice if one could follow it every time. The reality is the

some coins get a higher price because of the holder. I’m not sure how to

protect yourself - only collect coins that are under-graded maybe?

 

Hays

[HaydenTubbs]

PCGS doesn’t do a better job at grading than NGC or ANACS – I don’t know

about ICG but let’s give them the benefit of doubt for this argument. PCGS

HAS done a better job of marketing their product. Until a rival company

out maneuvers them in this area they will keep getting the top prices.

 

Hays

 

ANACS was good,but they have began to decline over the past few years.I've began to see more AT and questionable coins in their holder,it's not that PCGS or NGC don't have problem coins either.It's just that I've seen more and more in ANACS holders...

[Brotherman]

Hayden, your confidence in ANACS has been shaken. It illustrates my point.

The TPGS walk a tightrope. They need to holder enough coins to make

their customers happy and at the same time they need to weed out coins

that aren’t market acceptable. Tougher grading standards boosts confidence

but reduces the number of coins they place into slabs. If it gets too hard to get

a coin into one of their slabs then the number of coins submitted to them

drops. Lower submissions equals fewer dollars for the TPGS. Because of

that their grades are constantly changing and evolving because what is

market acceptable is changing and evolving as well - that’s why they won’t

post their grading standards!

Most coins are graded by a more forgiving set of standards today. Trust me -

it WILL NOT always be like this. History shows us that human beings are

fickle animals. Perceptions will change and TPGS will follow suit. However,

when that happens, realize that change will be temporary as well.

 

Hays

[TomB]

I''m not intentionally trying to be stupid, but what are "the Journals"?

[RGT]

Hayden, I don't know about AT coins in ANACS holders but I have the exact opposite view of ANACS. I noticed around two years ago that their grading tightened up. This was before the new slab and before JT was hired. I have seen more coins in earlier ANACS holders that seem overgraded or cleaned than I have seen in the newer ones.

 

I got a submission of 20 coins back from them a week ago, 13 were reholder coins and seven were sent in raw (including crackouts). I've been thinking of posting an analysis of this group of coins but I'm not sure how many really care. Overall I am pleased with the results and I feel ANACS was accurate to tight with the grades. I did post one half dime last week from this group that they called cleaned. They have certainly gotten tighter with cleaned coins.

 

I think ANACS is moving in the right direction but they stumbled a few times along the way and the wolves pounced. Slow grading times and some early slab problems caused some to write them off too early. Then there's the ones who made up their minds before they even had any facts because they had a bit too much cool-aid to drink.

[gmarguli]

I''m not intentionally trying to be stupid, but what are "the Journals"?

 

Journals

 

I'm not exactly sure what they are either. From most of the ones I have read, it seems like many would have been better suited as posts in the forums instead of hidden in the journals.

[TomB]

Ahhhh...the jounals...it's just my opinion but I always thought that these should have been included on the boards instead of individual soapboxes.

[Wihlborg]

Ahhhh...the jounals...it's just my opinion but I always thought that these should have been included on the boards instead of individual soapboxes.

 

I agree. Actually, I find it annoying to have them on my registry page.

 

John

[jom]

I don't know about you guys but I certainly would respect the opinion written in the "Journals" from anyone who goes by the name of "wigglebutts". Well written, insightfull numismatic journalism at its finest...I'm sure.

 

 

jom

[Brotherman]

I don't know about you guys but I certainly would respect the opinion written in the "Journals" from anyone who goes by the name of "wigglebutts". Well written, insightfull numismatic journalism at its finest...I'm sure.

 

 

jom

 

The only reason I chose "Brotherman" is because "wigglebutts" was taken

 

Hays

[MunkyMan95]

I don't know about you guys but I certainly would respect the opinion written in the "Journals" from anyone who goes by the name of "wigglebutts". Well written, insightfull numismatic journalism at its finest...I'm sure.

 

 

jom

 

The only reason I chose "Brotherman" is because "wigglebutts" was taken

 

Hays

 

I happen to know "Wigglebutts" personally, and I can say for a fact that he is a very insightful, and well rounded individual. No pun intended.

[TomB]

There are four suggestions I have made to NGC over the years to improve the NGC Registry experience, and they have not acted on any of them. Three of the requests were quite serious and would make for a better registry, while one was more whimsical, but fairly harmless. I haven't been impressed with their responsiveness.

[Brotherman]

There are four suggestions I have made to NGC over the years to improve the NGC Registry experience, and they have not acted on any of them. Three of the requests were quite serious and would make for a better registry, while one was more whimsical, but fairly harmless. I haven't been impressed with their responsiveness.

 

May I ask... what were they?

 

Hays

[Architecht]

Ahhhh...the jounals...it's just my opinion but I always thought that these should have been included on the boards instead of individual soapboxes.

 

I agree. Actually, I find it annoying to have them on my registry page.

 

John

 

Some new systems coming to compartmentalize them better.

 

This, however, is how they should be used:

 

http://www.collectors-society.com/Home.aspx?PeopleID=7914

 

And the benefit is that there's a cohesive feel for THAT PERSON'S collecting.

[WinstonWare]

Oh...dot net Nice Arch!

[EZ_E]

I got a submission of 20 coins back from them a week ago, 13 were reholder coins and seven were sent in raw (including crackouts). I've been thinking of posting an analysis of this group of coins but I'm not sure how many really care.

 

I'd like to see that.

[ronday]

My dad always said, “Belief is more important than fact.”

 

People are motivated by their beliefs and not facts. They will even create facts

to support their beliefs.

Hays

 

My son-in-laws dad likes to quote Ben Franklin, but that is another story.

 

With so many "Facts" floating around today it seems almost impossible to sort out the *BS* from the real MEAT.

 

That said, From my LIMITED experience of comparing a few hundred coins some of which were the same date and grades in different holders. I am starting to see coin grading like I see Olympic Figure Skating.

 

Huh?

 

Those of you that have watched the "Pros" score the Olympic figure skating contests know EXACTLY what I mean. All of these athletes are "Gem" Quality, but once you get to a certain point it all becomes something else when it comes time to put a number on the scoreboard.

 

I rate this post a 6.0

[ronday]

Ahhhh...the jounals...it's just my opinion but I always thought that these should have been included on the boards instead of individual soapboxes.

 

But that is the whole point of the journals. "UserCentric VS TopicCentric" That way you can get to know a collector instead of an idea.

[ronday]

I don't know about you guys but I certainly would respect the opinion written in the "Journals" from anyone who goes by the name of "wigglebutts". Well written, insightfull numismatic journalism at its finest...I'm sure.

 

 

jom

 

I am glad to hear that, you must have the priv of knowing him!

 

By the way, do you know how he came to choose that name?

[TomB]

But that is the whole point of the journals. "UserCentric VS TopicCentric" That way you can get to know a collector instead of an idea.

I guess that is a valid point, but I dislike, and borderline resent, the fact that they are thrust onto my own registry homepage and occupy approximately 60% of the area of the registry homepage. It's silly, but that feels like an intrusion that lessens my enjoyment and desire to contribute to the registry experience.

[ronday]

I too would like to see my registry set first. But from the post by architect I think that something is in the works.