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advice needed from forum members

32 posts in this topic

As I mentioned in another post, I have a R.6 FH dollar sitting on my desk. I am debating buying it, but I will probably return it for the following reasons:

 

1. It is in too low of a grade (ICG F12, but with an outside chance of grading VF20).

2. It has a ``decent'' look, which is far below what I typically buy for my collection.

3. In its last auction appearance, this same specimen was raw and cataloged as Net VG10, polished, F15+ details. PCGS has subsequently BB'ed the coin as having been cleaned.

4. Based on last known auction and FPL prices for this variety, the dealer probably paid way too much and is also asking for too much.

5. There is an outside chance that this variety is really a High R.5 instead of a R.6. At least, I think this is a low R.6.

 

I have THREE questions for the members here:

1. Should I return this coin? I have seen many ED's slabbed by PCGS, ICG and NGC that have far less eye appeal than this coin.

2. If I do return it, should I offer to tell the dealer what I know about this coin? It may make him feel bad, but I like him and feel that he should at least have the option of knowing.

3. Or, should I use my knowledge of this coin to try to get him to lower the price to something more acceptable? It is unlikely, though, since the price gap is quite large.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

EVP

 

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EVP,

 

Based on the information that you have provided, it doesn't seem that you will be able to find a price that will genuiniely satisfy both you (knowing a more realistic value and history) or the dealer (sunk investment), and if I were in yoru situation, would return the piece.

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EVP,

 

Return it! You have numerous good reasons to do so.

 

As to whether to tell the dealer why - if you have a good relationship with him and feel he'd want to know the reason, by all means, tell him.

 

If you disclose the information you know but do so while trying to get a better price, he might not take the disclosure as he should and might doubt your motive for telling him.

 

Return the coin, tell him why and don't try to get him to lower the price. It doesn't sound like it's for you, even at a lower number. I say that after reading YOUR thoughts on the coin.

 

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Thanks, all, for your unanimous response.

 

I called him, and got the machine. So, I emailed him a nice letter thanking him for sending me the coin, saying that I'll reimburse him for his leg of the postage (I feel bad, knowing what I know of the coin!), and also offering him what I know of this coin, etc.

 

If he responds with interest on the info, then I'm happy to send it to him.

 

My reasoning is that the population of collectors interested in this variety is really rarified. These people are probably like me; we eat, drink, dream, urinate, defecate, regurgitate and expectorate early dollars. It took me all of a few minutes to dig up my info. Imagine if it were someone like Jules or Warren who were viewing this coin? Anyway, my point is that potential customers of R.6 early dollars are likely armed with the same kind of info as I, and that means that this dealer -- who is a very nice guy -- would be at a huge disadvantage.

 

EVP

 

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EVP - I Just noticed that you have been a Mets fan since 1974 (I used to live in NYC). If you are that patient with your collecting, I'm sure you're doing well.

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since I have been expecially cranky lately, please excuse me while I vent.

 

I am an avid collector, I enjoy collecting coins, but as I may have revealed in another thread - I am out of my league in forums of this type because my collections are rather ordinary. Indians and Lincoln cents, Libert, Buffalo and Jefferson Nickels, Liberty Head, Mercury and Roosevelt Dimes, Liberty Head, STanding Liberty and Washington Quarters, Liberty Head, Walkers, Franklins and JFK halves, Morgans, Peace and Ike Dollars. Pretty oridinary stuff.

 

Now that you know what my exposure is, I have to say, I read this post, and I am sorry, but I have no earthly idea what is being discussed. Call me stupid, but heck, my depth of knowledge is nowhere near that of many others, and my willingness to pour thousands of dollars into a single coin is also limited.

 

With all of today's discussion regarding increasing traffic and activity on this forum, maybe one way would be to understand everyone doesn't have the depth of knowledge others do, and a little more explanation would help expand the knowledge base of more novice members.

 

Ok, I'm not nearly as cranky now. Sorry, if my comments are pointed, I'm just frustrated over being in so far over my head.

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1. It is in too low of a grade (ICG F12, but with an outside chance of grading VF20).

2. It has a ``decent'' look, which is far below what I typically buy for my collection.

3. In its last auction appearance, this same specimen was raw and cataloged as Net VG10, polished, F15+ details. PCGS has subsequently BB'ed the coin as having been cleaned.

 

OK, so I already read your decision, but still..

 

1. I wouldn't buy this coin if you felt that a better coin would come along and you could afford that better coin.

2. I would not want a damaged coin if an undamaged one was available or would become available.

3. The above says something about ICG. ICG/ACG what is the difference?

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Hi Cranky, Franky smile.gif ,

 

You are most certainly not in over your head here. And, you are perfectly welcome, as others are, regardless of collecting preferences - that diversity of interests and viewpoints helps make these forums potentially great.

 

The initial post by EVP sought advice on how to handle a particular transaction. He received advice from a number of board members (and did not receive any feedback from bored board members) and then the thread lost its focus. I take partial responsibility for that, as I digressed when I noticed that EVP was a Met's fan. From there, it went downhill rather quickly.

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my collections are rather ordinary

 

Frank,

 

You collect Buffs and SLQ's. I would hardly consider those two series ordinary. To me, they are two very challenging series to grade, very lovely to behold, and contain a nice spread of numismatically interesting varieties.

 

Buffalo 5c were the dream nickel series of my youth, and SLQ's were the dream silver series of my youth.

 

I already know that I will be pursuing Buffs in the not too distant future -- with Hoot's guidance, of course! I saw Hoot's SLQ that he sold recently on eBay, and I almost started that series immediately.

 

I take mild offense at referring these two series as ordinary! smile.gif

 

EVP

 

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Greg,

 

I didn't say so initially, but the coin that I passed on will grade at PCGS and NGC. At ANACS, it will likely net-grade. It may not grade at PCGS and NGC right away, but the quality is borderline that it will grade in time. And, the eye appeal is not *that* bad.

 

I honestly don't think this is a case of ICG-is-bogus-dude.

 

EVP

 

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EVP,

 

Not being as familiar with Early Dollar, don't many have mild cleaning anyway, even holdered? Seems that I remember hearing that was common.

 

As to Hoot's Buffalos, he has a great eye and is a great guy in person to boot.

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Not being as familiar with Early Dollar, don't many have mild cleaning anyway, even holdered? Seems that I remember hearing that was common.

 

Yes, that is very common. I am leaning towards holding onto it! Is that bad?

 

As to Hoot's Buffalos, he has a great eye and is a great guy in person to boot.

 

I don't know if I want to boot him. He's done nothing bad to me! What did he do to you that you want to impart violence upon him?

 

smile.gif

 

EVP

 

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EVP,

 

It seemed that your gut reaction was wanting to send it back, based on your intiial post. Given that, I would do so. When reviewing my collection, I find that those coins I fell in love with at first sight have stayed in my collection for the longest. The ones that I thought about for a while, and debated buying, have usually ended up being rotated out of my collection and replaced.

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I am leaning towards holding onto it! Is that bad?

 

Yes that is bad. Why do you need the group members to convince you. If you like the coin enough to write a big check for it, then you porbably would have already opened your checkbook. The fact that you are unsure is enough to make you forget about the coin. Another one will come along. Unless the coin speaks to you on first sight, you probably should pass on it.

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Like I said - if you had to ask, you already knew you were sending it back. The rest was just going thru the motions.

 

We are stuck too often with coins we love that we have to sell, why burden yourself with a coin you don't love?

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We are stuck too often with coins we love that we have to sell, why burden yourself with a coin you don't love?

 

I don't love a coin just because it's appealing! I love all coins, even the ugly ones.

 

Shame on you!!!

 

wink.gif

 

EVP

 

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I just tuned in here for a few minutes and found that I had missed this and markfeld's post on shaking up the forum and MANY others!!! (I hate it when the number of new posts exceeds my capacity to think, read, or understand). Thank you for the support and kind words regarding buffs and SLQ's!!! I needed something just like that, as I just sunk another hunk into an MS66 1934-D buff blush.gifcrazy.gifgrin.gif . I think I need my head examined by the wheels of a large truck. And yes, yes! SLQs - sophisticated and lovely! One of the best 20th century coins!!!! And some with toning to die for.

 

As for Keith giving me the boot, it was in his mild-mannered way! A true Texas gentleman, exceptionally knowledgeable, wonderful to meet, and not even insane living that close to Spooly!!! Why he would buy a house in tornado country, however, remarks of some potential mental deficiencies.

 

Now, EVP, I have located a seemingly nice 1802 dollar. Want more info? Is it worth more info? I will try to give you more details later!!!

 

Hoot

 

p.s. EVP - glad you are returning the coin.

 

p.p.s. aMultifarousLabMom!!! laugh.gif

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Remember this thread?

 

Just so everyone knows, I did return the coin and I know what became of it. Unfortunately, I also know of another specimen of this rare variety. This one is raw and graded EF40 by the dealer and noted as being nice and original.

 

I have not yet seen this piece, but hope to in a couple of weeks.

 

I wrote above that this is unfortunate because it's yet another temptation that I wish I didn't have to deal with right now. I am hoping that this coin turns out to a real pooper.

 

(Mark Feld, the dealer is the one I PM'ed you about.)

 

EVP

 

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