Requesting peoples’ thoughts on specialization

[WinstonWare]

Hey guys,

 

One of the books that I recently read, “The COINage guide to collecting and investing in coins” suggests that it is a good idea for new collectors to specialize in a specific type coin. This is suggested because:

 

It’s hard to know everything about every coin, but it’s possible to know nearly everything about one specific type of coin

 

In theory, that makes a lot of sense, but in practice it appears more difficult. I’ve spent the last year buying a bunch of various coins that I liked – a couple commemorative halves, a few Morgan dollars, a few Bust halves, a couple gold coins, and a few random pieces.

 

I would hate to limit myself to one coin type but I also hate to ignore sound advice. So my question is – What do you guys think of this advice? Do you specialize in a certain type coin? Would you strongly recommend this practice?

 

Thanks for your thoughts - Winston

[skippy]

In the beginning, it makes sense to buy coins from many different series. Find out more about what appeals to you, and about grading.

 

As time goes on, I think specialization is an excellent idea. Unless you are a multimillionaire, it is too expensive to do justice to more than a very few series (except if you are collecting moderns and not pursuing ultra-high-grade specimens).

 

Furthermore, if you choose to specialize in a series that is not widely collected, you have an opportunity to contribute your own research to that series.

 

I specialize in shield nickel varieties. These are under-collected and under-researched, so there has been ample opportunity for me to make contributions.

[Brotherman]

I think it’s the best way to go. I was all over the place when I

started. Specializing (and finding a mentor in that specialty) allows you to

focus your collecting resources as well as learn about a specific series. My

focus has been on circulated Walking Liberty halves and with the help of

Bob (supertooth) my collection has improved dramatically.

I still collect the occasional toned Morgan silver dollar and I’m doing the

Dansco 7070 type album, but mostly I look for, read about, and obsess

over Walkers.

 

Hays

[DaveG]

In theory, yes it makes a lot of sense, but. . .

 

why force yourself to do something just because someone else says so?

 

Collect what you want to and the way you want to, by all means!

 

Certainly, you should strive to learn as much as you can about your chosen coins, but just because you won't become the world's greatest expert on one particular coin series doesn't mean you can't be one of the leading experts on several coin series!

 

You'll enjoy it a lot more if you do your own thing and not someone else's!

[TomB]

I agree entirely with DaveG on this one. Truly, most of the things you are going through have been gone through by all of us who have been in the hobby/industry for a greater length of time.

 

If you read the thread about my ten year anniversary back in numismatics, you will see that I explain some of my own experiences in posts further down. In my opinion, numismatics as a study is similar to other studies in that you continue to learn, and with that knowledge you refine your ideas and focus.

 

Currently, or in the past, I have been heavily involved in superbly toned coinage, early MS Washington quarters, problem-free, circulated early Federal type, high-end nineteenth century type, superb matte proof Lincoln cents and mid-grade Barber halves. Fortunatley for me, I have been ahead of the curve, sometimes substantially and sometimes marginally, for each of these niche areas. However, even when I have been concentrating on one area, I have been looking at everything.

 

If you wander the field of numismatics, learn everything you can everywhere you go and seek out willing, knowledgeable and generous mentors you will find that the journey will make the destination richer.

[astrostu]

I actually posted this exact question a few month ago and got some good advice. My situation is that I've been collecting now for 11 years, and I mainly focused on everything. In other words, when I would go to a coin store, I would just look around and buy what looked cool to me at the time. Effectively, I was type collecting because in the back of my mind I was trying to get an example of each type of series.

 

But, that made going to the coin store somewhat difficult because I would just spend forever trying to figure out what to buy. So, a few months ago after receiving advice here, I decided to concentrate on just a few series that I liked. So, I'm now actively collecting (besides what comes out of the Mint and is found in circulation):

 

Slabbed Kennedies

Slabbed Eisenhowers

Slabbed SBAs

Raw Sacagaweas

Raw Silver Eagles (Proof ... then slabbed uncirculated Silver Eagles)

Raw Peace Dollars

Raw 2 cents

Raw Flying Eagle cents

 

So as you can see, I just chose a few series that I like and thought it would be fun to learn more about (... and that's affordable ... since I love gold, especially the St. Gaudens double eagles, but they're WAY out of my price range). It also gives me direction when I'm trying to figure out what to buy at the coin store (gunning for one Peace and one silver eagle a month), and when I finish (or it becomes to expensive to finish) a series, I'll move onto another one.

 

So I guess to make some short advice really long: I would suggest picking out a few types of coins that you like, and then concentrate on those. That way, you're not limiting yourself to one series, but you're also not spreading yourself too thin.

[James_OldeTowne]

((( suggests that it is a good idea for new collectors to specialize in a specific type coin )))

 

I completely disagree with that advice. On the contrary, I would suggest a new collector buy as many different type coins as he can afford (in affordable grades, of course). Only then can he have any opportunity to determine what he likes or dislikes.

 

James

[jtryka]

I wholeheartedly agree with James, Tom and Dave on this one. Certainly if this advice were widely followed there would be no type collectors at all! When I got back into collecting seriously after a fairly long hiatus, I bought loads of stuff in a variety of areas. Mainly this was because it was 1999 and I couldn't believe how cheap these coins were compared to the late 80s and early 90s! Over time I settled on Saints as a main focus and I am still pretty much a newbie at them despite collecting them for nearly 7 years. But with all series you tend to run into walls at various times. On my Saint set I can see one coming as I have about 3 or 4 more additions before they become prohibitively expensive. But the good news is that I won't just put them away and ignore them when that happens as I will still pursue upgrades and always take time to look at even the common ones at shows just to see if I find something I overlooked before. At that time I might have more resources to pursue my much neglected type set, or my Peace dollar set. But it's all a matter of what interests you, and how you prefer to pursue the hobby. Some folks need to have a narrow focus others with short attention spans like me need breadth. Bottom line, choose what makes you happy!

[WinstonWare]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone! I appreciate it. Now I don't feel too off track.

 

Tom, I can't picture you buying an MS 61 1921 Morgan. That's funny. Good story.

 

[Brotherman]

I must say, I’m really surprised at the answers here – especially from the

older guys. Maybe they have forgotten what it’s like to be a new

collector?

The amount of information one must know to keep from getting fleeced

is overwhelming – and everyone knows there are sharks around every corner j

ust waiting for the unknowledgeable.

You may not need to know the history of each piece you buy and you

certainly don’t need to be an expert in a series to purchase, but if you are going

to cruise around buying a little bit of everything you DO need to be able to do a f

ew things like

 

Accurately grade each coin.

This can be more challenging than you might think because each series

wears differently. One can pick up the differences between Good and Fine

coins easily, but can a new collector distinguish a VF20 and a VF25 in

every series? I think not. Are MS coins any easier? I think they are

harder. Picture what an MS62 Morgan looks like and an MS62 Buffalo nickel.

Do they look ANYTHING like each other? Absolutely not! Could a new

collector pick out an MS62 for each series? Doubtful.

 

Be able to recognize counterfeits

I’ve seen several counterfeit coins posted here but didn’t know they were

fakes until it was pointed out. Specializing will help you spot a coin that

just doesn’t look right.

 

Be able to spot cleaned, whizzed, dipped, and polished coins AND be able to

do that with silver, gold, nickel, and copper. I’ve seen you older guys debate

on this one all the time, so it’s not always easy to tell especially if the cleaning

is done well.

 

Know if the price is fair.

There are times when you just CAN’T get to a price guide. Can a new

collector really have all that information in his head? If you specialize you

CAN realistically learn prices for the grade you are collecting.

 

Recognize NT vs AT

I know some of you are going to say “But I don’t collect toned coins.”

Well, unless you are collecting ultra-modern coins then you ARE collecting

toned coins. Can a new collector spot a coin that has been cleaned and

re-toned in every single series with every single metal type?? Can a new

collector that is not specializing in copper pick out a coin that’s been dyed?

 

What if a new guy was collecting world coins? Would the older guys still give

the same advice?

 

The older guys are the experts on coins – no arguments there. But newbies

like me are experts on being new; so I have to say DON’T listen to the older

guys on this one! Listen to a fellow newbie and specialize. You don’t need

to collect just one series your entire life, but while you are learning pick one or

two series and learn them. It will smooth out the learning curve. When you

move onto other series the learning curve won’t be as steep as you will

have already mastered the basics. With that said – by all means LOOK

at everything. Read about everything. Listen, ask questions about every

single series - BUT spend your cash and focus learning on just a few at a time.

I think you will make fewer mistakes.

 

Hays

[IGWT]

Tom, I can't picture you buying an MS 61 1921 Morgan.

 

And I can't picture him looking like Mike Brady.

[WinstonWare]

Hays, You have many good points. Thanks for taking the time to write them down for me (and others).

 

I don't know if one would call it a coin type, but I am intersted in the early half dollar commemoratives. I think I might dabble in those a bit, but before I do...Can anyone reccomend a good book on early half commemoratives?

 

Thanks again!

[TomB]

There are several good books on classic commems. I am at work right now and can't recall their names exactly, but one is by Bowers and the other by Taxay. The Bowers book was likely written in the late 1980s and the Taxay book in the mid 1960s. Both are excellent and I will post their titles tonight, if no one else does so first.

[Bruceswar]

Winston here is what I think about that advice. I think its great to specialize, but that does not mean to stop collecting the others. If you try to specialize in something that just means you know more than the average person about the series. Its good to more knowledgable in certain areas than you are in some. I mean we would love to know it all, but its not going to happen. So it is best to pick one area and really go for it. Over that time you will also learn about other series as well.

[RGT]

The two best books I have read on the series are:

 

The Encyclopedia of U.S. Silver and Gold Commemorative Coins - Swiatek / Breen

and

Commemorative Coins of the U.S.: A Complete Encyclopedia - Bowers

 

The Bowers book is my favorite of the two but Swiatek's book has some valuable information that Bowers doesn't cover. If you want to get serious about the series I would recomend both. I'm not familiar with the Taxay book. As far as availability, I think the Swiatek book can be found with a little effort but Bowers book is a bit harder to find and doesn't come cheap.

 

I started collecting these a few years back. I have recently lost some interest and turned more toward older classic issues. I may end up selling some of mine, but right now the market is a bit week and seems more like a buyers market. Still, they may never come out of their slump so don't jump in with hopes of big returns down the road. I have some that I really enjoy and may never sell.

[WinstonWare]

Randy you do have some very nice commemorative pieces in your registry set. I'll have to take a better look through when I have some more time.

 

Edit to add: Okay I did get some time. Well really, I just looked while I was stuffing my dinner in my mouth. Again, this looks like a really nice collection of commemoratives. I wasn't going to jump into commemoratives as just an investment but why do you say that they are in a slump. To me the commemoratives appear to be commanding a fairly high price. If you get a chance, tell me more about what you mean.

 

Thanks! Winston

[MikeKing]

I have to add my two cents. I agree with all the above. Great advice, all of it.

What I do want to say about specialization is that you get a chance to delve really deeply into one kind of coin and then learn how many kinds of that one kind of coin there are. For example, if you chose to put together a bust half collection in extremely fine condition, you have one doable and difficult task ahead of you. You will learn what extremely fine is all about, how that would apply to a few dozen coins of the same genus but different species, if you get my drift. You'll see how these coins were minted under differing conditions and under different engravers. Not that you can't do that with type, in a way, you can do things with one 'kind' of coin in depth that you can't do with type, just by virtue of the fact that you're going into depth with one kind of coin...and you are doing it by sticking your neck out and actually buying the coins, searching for what suits you as you develope your taste, culling your collection of undesirables and mistakes (which will happen) and studying the coins both in person and in the text books which will take on new meaning.

 

And I'm saying this while I'm very much in agreement with James when he suggested going with type to learn, but the day will come when you will become fascinated with a certain coin, and I wouldn't LOOK for that, just let it happen and evolve naturally.

 

My only words of warning are this; learn what is krap. There's a lot of krap out there. Why I'm sure there are some people that think I collect krap, and in fact, I've got a few krappy coins that someday I need to get away from. But searching through the Heritage archives, I'm totally amazed at what money was spent on real garbage*, so just develop the eye using the internet as well, search the dealers web sites, look at their pictures, look at their prices, search Heritage's archives, see what people are paying, search ANR's archives. Learn what stupid money mean, so you'll know when you've spent stupid money .

 

Like I should learn this myself.

 

*= garbage is garbage irrespective of grade. Grade has nothing to do with it. At all.

[DaveG]

bortherman,

 

What you say is true - however, I would say that no "new collector" should be doing the things you describe. For that matter, I've been actively collecting for over 13 years and I don't do some of the things you describe.

 

No new collector should be spending "big money" (how ever you define it) buying coins he can't grade accurately, or buying a VF25 coin that has a big spread between VF20 and VF25, or buying expensive coins raw, etc., etc.

 

Most of us "old guys" started by filling Whitman folders from pocket change and then graduated to buying $5-$10 coins. At that price, it just didn't matter if you overpaid $2 for a VF20 coin.

 

What we are saying is: "Coin collecting is a hobby that one does for one's own enjoyment. You don't have to let someone else tell you how to enjoy the hobby."

 

On the other hand, if someone is willing to spend "big money" before he's gained a certain amount of numismatic wisdom, well, you know what they say about fools and their money.

[MikeKing]

PS, If you like Vikings, look into the Norse Medal, both thick and thin. Try to find a really nice one, or two. No mean task.

[WinstonWare]

I actually have one. WooHoo! I was looking at higher grades or thin but a thick PCGS MS 63 snuck through ebay at $200. I thought that was pretty good so I bought it. I may upgrade that at some point in time (or buy him a sibling), but it's not a priority right now.

 

Sorry I didn't entirely catch your drift with "garbage." What are you calling garbage coins?

 

BTW - A+ capped bust collection. All nicely toned and none look dipped out.

[TomB]

Sorry I didn't entirely catch your drift with "garbage." What are you calling garbage coins?

This is a vitally important concept to understand; garbage coins are coins that you don't want to buy, no matter what the grade or price.

 

To answer your other observation about the prices of early commems, this niche market has remained relatively flat when compared to other areas of numismatics. For quite a while I, too, was waiting for classic commems to take off and after about six years of waiting I decided to give up. One reason for the flat performance of these is that high grade MS pieces are abundant for nearly every issue, even though they had relatively small initial mintages. Also, the TPGs have played fast-and-loose with grading these coins for many years and the result is that there are awful dogs from every issue in every grade, even the highest grades. These factors tend to keep bid levels down for generic pieces.

[DaveG]

A "garbage" coin would be one with poor eye appeal or problems (scratched, cleaned, etc.) or is significantly overgraded, etc.

 

The kind of coin you want to buy is one that, when you show it to TomB, he asks "How much do you want for it?" and is reluctant to hand back to you!

[cladking]

There are many advantages to both specialization and to generalization. I'm naturally inclined to be a generalist so it's hardly surprising that it affects me in collecting as well. It seems as though specialists in all fields often can't see the forest for the trees. In many fields everyone is a specialist and many forests just seem to go overlooked.

 

The biggest advantage to collecting everything is that you can find material everywhere. There's no danger of driving a long distance to a show just to find none of the dealers have anything you want. It is much easier to find trading partners and when a dealer prices something too low you'll spot it. It does take time to absorb the information so newbies are not advised to try to start many collections at once. Pick something that appeals to you and learn about it. If you have time and money then you can add more things that appeal to you. You can remain a life-long specialist if you desire and still rotate through many different specialties or you can stick with what you know and enjoy.

 

There are no rules. Use common sense and go slow at first. Sell a coin from time to time so that you know what coins are really worth.

[WinstonWare]

I did find and buy the "Commemorative Coins of the U.S.: A Complete Encyclopedia" - Bowers, which is good because I only have a few pages left in my current book.

 

Considering the gloomy financial outlook that you guys are portraying for commemoratives maybe I won't stay in them too long. However, there are a few that I really like and just have to have (after doing the proper research, of course).

[TomB]

Considering the gloomy financial outlook that you guys are portraying for commemoratives maybe I won't stay in them too long.

I can agree with this if your goal is to do a high volume in these pieces and flip them for a quick profit. However, if your goal is to learn about their history, acquire beautiful coins and hunt out superb specimens to hold for the long-term then the current market conditions should not deter you.

[WinstonWare]

Oh yeah. Not interested, or capable for that matter, in high volume for quick profit. Aside from the occasional coin that I want to upgrade, I don't know when, if ever, I will sell my coins.

[RGT]

Randy you do have some very nice commemorative pieces in your registry set. I'll have to take a better look through when I have some more time.

 

Edit to add: Okay I did get some time. Well really, I just looked while I was stuffing my dinner in my mouth. Again, this looks like a really nice collection of commemoratives. I wasn't going to jump into commemoratives as just an investment but why do you say that they are in a slump. To me the commemoratives appear to be commanding a fairly high price. If you get a chance, tell me more about what you mean.

 

Thanks! Winston

 

Thanks for the comments, though my set is way down the list and you can see some really nice sets including those of other members here.

 

Tom has already answered this but I can add a few personal comments. I started collecting these about four years ago. I really liked the variety of designs and the history associated with each one. I started buying them at a level that I could afford and usually at the grade just before a big price jump. I also looked for attractive coins. Not necessarily monster coins, but coins that weren't ugly like so many you see. I preferred toned over white, but picked up a few white ones that were priced right.

 

I was looking to complete the type set rather than the date/mint set. I managed to get 40 different though a few are in ANACS slabs and can't be shown in my registry set. I also picked up several duplicates when I found them for good prices. (I have shown my fleet of Pilgrims here before.)

 

After a while I finally realized that these coins weren't scarce despite the low mintages. Not only were they not scarce, they seemed to be everywhere. At shows, only Morgans out displaced them for gross tonnage. And as I watched the coin market heat up and prices rise I saw much less movement in the Commems. That was good for me since I was still actively buying. But when I wanted to sell off some duplicates I realized that I might be lucky to get my money back.

 

I did sell some and made money on all of them. That was due mosly to my buying at the right price and showing much better pictures than average in my auctions rather than any market moves. There has been some price movement over the last few years. I bought my MS66 Idaho for less than $90 and they seem to going for around $200 now. Then, there is my MS65 San Diego that I paid $120 for, which is right around what they go for today.

 

I keep hearing rumors that these are being bought up in preparation for another big marketing effort. I don't know if that's true but I think that's what it would take to cause any significant rise in prices. Sure, some of the monster toned coins are bringing very strong prices these days, but the nice coins are fairly flat and the ugly ones just don't sell.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's a nice and interesting set to put together. It can even be challenging if you set your goals on grade and appearance right. The flat market can even be your friend giving you more time to assemble a set without worrying about price increases. I'm still hanging onto mine and there are some I may never part with. In fact, I just bought one a couple of months ago. I may even try to finish the set. But I tend to buy into weakness rather than chasing the current hot series.

 

Sorry to have rambled on so long.

[TomB]

RGT just gave you years of hard earned knowledge in one post.

 

I also own a few of these, and the ones I have held onto are quite attractive and remain in my collection because I like them. Mine only consist of the Columbian, Maine, Connecticut, Pan-Pac and Norse.

[TJ'S Coins]

Amen to the hard earned experience RGT has given us. I like the commemoratives mainly for the designs that were produced. I love the Connecticut, Bridgeport, Oregon Trail ones. Texas has an amazing commemorative because of so much they were able to fit in My collecting of them began with assembling something related to places where I have lived around the country but has since expanded to those that interest me or are attractively toned and priced right. Prices have increased this past year so my purchasing of this series has stopped until they level off again.

 

As to any one particular series. I purchase coins that I like because of their character, history or something original about them. I learn as I go and when I learn something that interests me I pursue more knowledge and coins that reflect my growing knowledge. The result is I keep on learning, keep on collecting and enjoy wide facets of the hobby. I'm not an expert in any single area but am growing in knowledge and understanding of several.

 

Based upon a recommendation TomB gave a couple of months ago, I purchased a copy of "Numismatic Art in America" and just finished reading it. It is an excellent volume to gain an artistic appreciation for the hobby that we enjoy.

[WinstonWare]

Randy, Thanks for taking the time to outline your experiences with commemoratives. I noticed that many of your pieces had a nice tone when I was going through your registry set

 

I really liked the variety of designs and the history associated with each one

 

This is what I find most appealing. By definition each coin "commemorates" some historical event. Also, the many designs. It's just too much for me to pass on. At least for now, I think I am just going to have to start collecting commemoratives.