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4th of July Circulation Find ...

Started by Die Varieties,

18 posts in this topic

Die Varieties

Die Varieties

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I hope everybody had a great 4th! I ate too much -- but it was good!

 

Searching a few circulated rolls yesterday, I came across this coin. Granted, this isn't anything spectacular, but I thought it was interesting and it does provide an educational aspect with this type of mint error. It has rotated dies about 33 degrees clockwise give or take a few. Has anybody heard of any rotated dies for 1999-D cents?

 

A while back I came across a 1994 cent with around 175 degree rotated dies. I subsequently had the coin encapsulated by NGC which it graded MS-66/Red Rotated Dies Mint Error. It was published in Numismatic News and I received quite a few inquires from the article.

 

A couple of collectors sent me their 1994 cent rotated dies with one being exactly 180 and the other was only rotated about 60 degrees. After close examination of their coins with my 1994 cent, I was able to confirm that the obverse on my coin as well as these two other coins all had the exact same large die gouge at the letter "D" of GOD. This confirmed that it was a loose die that with the intense vibration of the press continually caused the culprit die to keep rotating. Theoretically, the culprit die could have rotated back into the normal alignment position and then continue on rotating out of alignment again.

 

Though speculating at this juncture -- maybe this 1999-D cent could have the same problem and might be others out there to be found with varying degrees of rotation. Let me know if you come across one. Would like an opportunity to examine to see if we might have the same die pairing.

 

I will always remember when I found this one -- 4th of July.

 

Everybody have a great week.

 

1999drotateddiescoins.jpg

 

1994ngcholdercoins.jpg

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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Billy, wouldn't it be more correct to say it has a die rotation of 213 degrees, rather than 33? Or am I misunderstanding how to measure the rotation? I'm referring to the image of the coin in the slab. It looks like the reverse is a little shy of being rotated all the way over.

 

I thought the way to measure rotation is the number of degrees counter-clockwise of the correct orientation, and would appreciate knowing the right way to measure. THANKS!

 

Regardless, a cool and affordable error to collect!

 

James

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Die Varieties

Die Varieties

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Billy, wouldn't it be more correct to say it has a die rotation of 213 degrees, rather than 33? Or am I misunderstanding how to measure the rotation? I'm referring to the image of the coin in the slab. It looks like the reverse is a little shy of being rotated all the way over.

 

I thought the way to measure rotation is the number of degrees counter-clockwise of the correct orientation, and would appreciate knowing the right way to measure. THANKS!

 

Regardless, a cool and affordable error to collect!

 

James

 

Excellent question James.

 

To answer your question -- I'm speaking technically here, there is no such thing as 213 degrees rotated from the obverse die. The key is: the most out of alignment with relationship to the obverse die can only be 180 degrees or less. Therefore -- to be correct whether clockwise or counter-clockwise, the amount of degree out of alignment with relationship to the obverse must be 180 or less degrees and which way you must rotate to get to that 180 or less degree position.

 

Therefore -- on this 1999-D one must rotate the reverse 33 degrees in a clockwise fashion -- therefore it's rotated 33 degrees in a clockwise fashion.

 

Another interesting aspect about this type of error is that some collectors use the term "rotated reverse." But again, technically, that is incorrect. We do not know if it is the obverse or if it is the reverse that is the culprit die. So -- the correct terminology is "rotated dies" mint error.

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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

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I thought the way to measure rotation is the number of degrees counter-clockwise of the correct orientation, and would appreciate knowing the right way to measure. THANKS! James

 

Having taken many years of drafting, that would have been my first thought, too. Then, I have to pinch myself to remind me that we are talking about coins and not building a house.

 

Nice find, Billy!

 

Chris

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pendragon1998

pendragon1998

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You know, for as long as rotated dies have been a problem, you'd think the mint would have implemented the obvious and simple solution: change the shape of the base of dies so that they can only be inserted into the machines in one orientation.

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zrlevin

zrlevin

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You know, for as long as rotated dies have been a problem, you'd think the mint would have implemented the obvious and simple solution: change the shape of the base of dies so that they can only be inserted into the machines in one orientation.

 

But Pendragon, that would be the logical solution. foreheadslap.gif

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Brotherman

Brotherman

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You know, for as long as rotated dies have been a problem, you'd think the mint would have implemented the obvious and simple solution: change the shape of the base of dies so that they can only be inserted into the machines in one orientation.

 

 

SHHHHH - We don't want them to correct it gossip.gif

 

Hays

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Die Varieties

Die Varieties

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You know, for as long as rotated dies have been a problem, you'd think the mint would have implemented the obvious and simple solution: change the shape of the base of dies so that they can only be inserted into the machines in one orientation.

 

No -- don't fix the problem. The system is fine as it is. Also - the mint says we don't make doubled dies anymore. Sure -- no problem -- they will get NO argument from me. Continue NOT making those doubled dies anymore too!

 

I'm laughing all the way to the bank ....

 

As I said in my first post, this 1999-D is no major rotated dies error. It's kinda neat looking and as far as I know, there are no known rotated die errors for 1999-D cents. I checked with Fred Weinberg and he hasn't heard of any verified. I tend to believe there are more of this type of error out there and probably on post-2000 dated coins but very few collectors catch it. One has to be looking for it. I would hazard a guess this 1999-D, with it being a nice full red grade, would probably bring around the $25 - $50 range. Not bad for a cent out of circulation. I was offered over $400 for my 1994 NGC slabbed one -- and that one came out of circulation too!

 

The main reason why I wanted to show the 1999-D cent was to alert those who do search circulated coinage to be on the lookout. There might be others out there just waiting to be found exhibiting a more drastic out of alignment. I know for a fact -- there are quite a few lurkers on this forum, as well as across-the-street who want to know about what is being found in circulation. How do I know? They privately e-mail me. Why do they lurk? Simple -- they tell me about all the horror stories they see about bashing collectors on forums that goes on and in turn they are hesitant to post. I'm sorry to tell you folks this -- but it's the honest truth!

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Die Varieties

Die Varieties

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There are a few web sites that list various rotated die mint errors. Here's one that I use that has some neat information on the subject.

 

Rotated Die Census Web Site

 

If you know of some please post -- I like to bookmark them.

 

Also -- here's a 2005-P Bison eBay auction with rotated dies mint error:

 

2005-P Bison Nickel Rotated Dies Error eBay Auction

 

Good Hunting!!!

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Die Varieties

Die Varieties

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Too bad it doesn`t also have the wide A M !!! It is the 98, 99, & 2000 your suppose to look for, right?

 

Yes -- you are correct. It is the 98, 99 and 2000 Philly cents. But the rotated coin in this thread is a 1999 Denver, not Philly.

 

I found a 1999 1c Wide AM just the other day right out of a circulated roll. Beautiful Gem BU/Red one to boot. I put it up on auction. The auction is currently running. It's at $350 with a couple days to go. My investment in the coin -- one cent (and of course now the eBay fees).

 

I just luv this hobby!

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zrlevin

zrlevin

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I found a 1999 1c Wide AM just the other day right out of a circulated roll. Beautiful Gem BU/Red one to boot. I put it up on auction. The auction is currently running. It's at $350 with a couple days to go. My investment in the coin -- one cent (and of course now the eBay fees).

 

I just luv this hobby!

 

I hope I will have the same luck! 893crossfingers-thumb.gif I'm going to start searching as soon as I get your book.

 

Do you find that searching cents is usually profitable? You sure have found alot of great coins lately.

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Die Varieties

Die Varieties

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"Do you find that searching cents is usually profitable?

 

I'm smiling all the way to the bank!

 

"I'm going to start searching as soon as I get your book."

 

You should get my book anytime. It has been shipped -- but sometimes media mail can take a while. If you don't get it in a few more days -- PM me.

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Regis44

Regis44

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QUOTE: "Do you find that searching cents is usually profitable?

 

I'm smiling all the way to the bank! "

 

_____________________________________________

 

A penny is a penny when you take it to the bank! 27_laughing.gif

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zrlevin

zrlevin

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You should get my book anytime. It has been shipped -- but sometimes media mail can take a while. If you don't get it in a few more days -- PM me.

 

I just got it in today's mail. Thanks!

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"I just got it in today's mail. Thanks!"

 

Glad to hear that. I sincerely hope you find my reference helpful in your collecting endeavors.

 

Good Hunting!!! There out there to be found ... leave some for me to find -- OK? wink.gif

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zrlevin

zrlevin

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I got through three rolls today. I have no idea how you can do $50 in one day. hail.gif

 

I had one find today: A 1982 DDO, classified in your book as CDDO-001, but if I read right, is also Breen 2300. I call it an AU55, but it is rather ugly, with lots of black splotches on it. It's not as crisp and obvious as the picture, so I believe that it is one of the last coins that that die made.

 

I have a question for you, Billy. I found a 1983 that has the die cracks in the same places as the CDDR-002, but has no trace of doubling that I could see. Is this possible? Or is it just a coincidence?

 

Thanks,

Zach

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