69 or 70 How do they do it???

[bctkorn-migration]

I am still pretty new, but I think NGC should send you something back when you send in something and it comes back 69 instead of 70.

I recently received my 4 Franklins from the mint and was going to sned them in before to much longer but I think I will be upset if they come back 69. I know they are still great at 69 but I haven't figured out yet what the difference is between 69 and 70 when you look at it.

Oh well

[MunkyMan95]

You expect 4 Franklins to come back in proof 69 good luck with that...

[bctkorn-migration]

The new 2006 Franklins. Why wouldn't they grade 69 or 70. If any grades lower than that, I am throwing them in the trash. Ha!

[zrlevin]

The new 2006 Franklins. Why wouldn't they grade 69 or 70. If any grades lower than that, I am throwing them in the trash. Ha!

 

They should grade 69 or 70. If they grade 68 though, I can take those eyesores off of your hands for you!

[James_OldeTowne]

Take what I'm about to state tongue-in-cheek.

 

There is no difference between 69 or 70.

 

That's right, 69 and 70 are the same darned thing.

 

Now, it is true that a coin in a slab with a sticker on it that states "70" will cost you more than a coin in a slab with a sticker on it that states "69", but yes, they ... are ... the ... same ... coin.

 

What grading companies (and in particular, PCGS) have discovered is that if they simply hand out 70 only once in a while as compared to 69, then it creates an artificial impression that there's something rare about the coin itself. But we know that's untrue. 69 and 70 coins are in fact the same (see above statements). But if they NEVER EVER handed out a 70, there would be NO INCENTIVE TO SEND IN THESE COINS FOR GRADES, and therefore no incentive for you to spend money.

 

If you knew for a fact that every time, no matter what, that you sent a coin in it would come back 69, would you bother? Of course not! But IF every time you sent coins in, there was a .001% chance that one would 70, then you would keep on trying, wouldn't you?

 

So that is the only reason why there are two grades, 69 and 70, for coins that are actually exactly the same. It's all a part of marketing, to get you to send in enough coins (and spend enough on grading fees) to occasionally get that special sticker that says....

 

70

 

James

[MunkyMan95]

I notice some difference in the 70 coins. Take the the 1/10 oz gold proof coins for example. An example in PR69DCAM and another in PR70DCAM look a little different. The 70's to me seem to POP more than the others, but I guess that's just my opinion.

[goose3]

the grade of "70" is a farce as far as I am concerned.

 

Nothing and no one will ever change my mind about it. It is nothing more than the toss of a coin.

 

Take 10 PF or MS 70's, crack them out and either:

 

1. resubmit them and see what you get

2. sell them raw as 70's

 

either way, I'd be willing to bet you'd be pretty unhappy with the results.

 

it's a complete farce and it should not be assigned to any coin.

[WinstonWare]

I have bought a few NGC silver state quarters in PF69 and a few in PF70. I haven't been able to notice any difference albeit I'm still pretty green at grading coins.

[mhardin2413]

i think they either have a magic 8 ball or a ouija board. i sure can't tell the difference except when i pay. i won't buy 70s, but i sure am happy when the folks at pcgs or ngc send a few.

[James_OldeTowne]

Here's how I see it. There's a conveyor belt on which all of this weeks ASEs (let's say as an example) that are in for grading are placed. These are routinely stuck into MS-69 holders. Every once in a while, there's some bantering between the three graders (as we know, all coins are graded by a committee).

 

George: Hey, how many ASEs did we do so far today?

Cornelius: Don't know - maybe 72,441?

Francisco: 78,892 to be exact. All MS-69!

Cornelius: I'm hungry! Is it lunch time yet?

Francisco: Not yet. We haven't gifted out a 70 yet!

George: Well, how 'bout THIS ONE

(George snatches an ASE off they conveyor, hands it over to Francisco. They're all wearing cotton gloves, of course.)

Francisco: (flips coin) here goes!

Cornelius: Heads! It's a 70!

George: No, we did heads last time. It shoud be tails this time!

(Cornelius shakes his head no) You got to decide last time. I want heads to make it this time!

Francisco: Come on guys, it's lunch time. Tell you what, whoever drives today gets to decide if it's heads or tails, OK?

George: Great! I'm driving!

 

You get the picture.

 

James

[bctkorn-migration]

Well thanks for all the opinions. I recently sent in my first submission and was "one of the lucky ones" I guess. My $25 gold is MS 69 and my $10 was 70. I really wish I would have got the $25 in 70, then it would have made my collection alot easier.

 

I just wish they would send out something with the coins saying this is 69 because.... Or this isn't 70 because...... either way.

[MunkyMan95]

Actually that may be a great idea. Maybe there was some sort of faint hairline on the coin that you didn't see before, and NGC or PCGS saw it. They would never point it out to you, just downgrade it. I think something like that would be nice to have.

[WinstonWare]

Yeah i couldn't agree more with SilverEagles95. Even if it costed a few extra dollars if you wanted a grade explanation I'd pay a little extra.

[MunkyMan95]

[michael]

 

 

 

 

There is no difference between 69 or 70.

 

That's right, 69 and 70 are the same darned thing.

 

Now, it is true that a coin in a slab with a sticker on it that states "70" will cost you more than a coin in a slab with a sticker on it that states "69", but yes, they ... are ... the ... same ... coin.

 

What grading companies (and in particular, PCGS) have discovered is that if they simply hand out 70 only once in a while as compared to 69, then it creates an artificial impression that there's something rare about the coin itself. But we know that's untrue. 69 and 70 coins are in fact the same (see above statements). But if they NEVER EVER handed out a 70, there would be NO INCENTIVE TO SEND IN THESE COINS FOR GRADES, and therefore no incentive for you to spend money.

 

If you knew for a fact that every time, no matter what, that you sent a coin in it would come back 69, would you bother? Of course not! But IF every time you sent coins in, there was a .001% chance that one would 70, then you would keep on trying, wouldn't you?

 

So that is the only reason why there are two grades, 69 and 70, for coins that are actually exactly the same. It's all a part of marketing, to get you to send in enough coins (and spend enough on grading fees) to occasionally get that special sticker that says....

 

70

 

James

 

 

[michael]

the grade of "70" is a farce as far as I am concerned.

 

Nothing and no one will ever change my mind about it. It is nothing more than the toss of a coin.

 

Take 10 PF or MS 70's, crack them out and either:

 

1. resubmit them and see what you get

2. sell them raw as 70's

 

either way, I'd be willing to bet you'd be pretty unhappy with the results.

 

it's a complete farce and it should not be assigned to any coin.

 

 

all true and to the new ones on here

[Bruceswar]

Yeah i couldn't agree more with SilverEagles95. Even if it costed a few extra dollars if you wanted a grade explanation I'd pay a little extra.

 

 

The main drawback would be the time concerns... the times would go out the roof... prolly about a years wait...

[RGT]

Yeah i couldn't agree more with SilverEagles95. Even if it costed a few extra dollars if you wanted a grade explanation I'd pay a little extra.

 

The grading companies will never do this. As long as you can't see anything wrong with the coin there is a chance that you will send it in again. If they point out the flaw (real or imagined) then you will leave the coin in the current holder and they will get no more fees.

[WinstonWare]

RGT & Bruceswar, I'm sure you guys are right. Still, it's a nice idea.

[TJ'S Coins]

Is there anything man creates which is truly "perfect", that is MS70? Under enough magnification flaws will always be present which is why they limit the magnification for grading purposes. It will be interesting to see what happens to all these modern MS70's 30-40 years down the road. Will they still be as desirable? No slab is completely environmentally safe. As they say, time will tell.

[EricG]

Personally I cannot see the differnce until you talk about bringing my loupe into the picture but technically the difference is that (in modern coins):

 

69 is perfect to the naked eye to a person with 20-20 vision

70 is perfect at 5X magnification

[AlixTCat]

I find that with ALL my MS69's, there is at the very least, ONE flaw in the coin. It may take a 5X mag to find it, but I can always find it. With my MS70's, I don't find any flaws. But that's just my take on things.

 

Jonathan

[Beijim]

My comments here pertain exclusively to coins graded at NGC and PCGS.

 

First of all, if you have no idea how to grade coins, there's little point in paying high multiples for 70 graded specimens. You almost certainly won't appreciate the actual but minute differences that (may) exist. Why pay big money for them?

 

My experience is similar to Jonathan's. I've inspected many many 69 and 70 coins, both proof and uncirculated. With a 69, there will be (as Jonathan states) at least one minor flaw visible to the naked eye. Sometimes it takes awhile to find, but I've never seen a 69 where I concluded, "this should have received 70."

 

It's true that many 70s also have flaws visible to the naked eye, so in this respect the folks who say 69 and 70 are effectively the same have a point. To the seeker of numismatic perfection, it's frustrating to receive something alleged to meet a certain standard that in fact it obviously does not.

 

I attribute flawed 70s, however, to the pace at which these coins are graded, i.e. subjective human error, and not to some cabal in which 70s are dispensed in response to a random number generator. I certainly have 70s in my modern collections that are essentially flawless under moderate magnification.

 

I've attached a photo of one such specimen for fun. I've examined this coin under 10x magnification and find it meets the 70 criterion for all practical purposes. It's truly a stupendous piece in hand.

 

All the above notwithstanding, I agree that the distinction between 69 and 70 (properly graded) is a fine one, and not everyone values this distinction to the same degree or at all.

 

Beijim