Please help me understand coin colors

[WinstonWare]

I'm trying to understand the importance of coin color. Below are two similarly graded coins yet one is brown and the other is white.

Specifically my questions are:

1. How can the white coin be white if it's graded and thus hasn't been cleaned?
2. Does either color command a higher price?

I've probably missed something so please add any other comments relevant to coin colors and their significance.
Thanks for any insight. I apprecaite it! Winston

[MunkyMan95]

Coin color may sway a single grader a few points higher or lower than a coin should be graded, but coins can be very different colors and have the same grade. The grade of a particular coin is based on the overall wear, and detail of a coin, not the color. The "brown" coin shown there may have been kept out in the open for some while. The "white" coin may very well have been cleaned. We had an example of that just a few threads ago about a PCGS slabbed coin that looked great before it was clean, but the owner cleaned it obviously hoping that it would grade higher, and thus ruined the authentic look of the coin. One cannot grade coins based on color, thus coins with different, even vibrant colors are assigned the same grade. Case and point.

 

This is the other thread I was talking about.

[Jazzy]

The 1807 likely HAS been cleaned.

 

Cleaning coins was de rigeur in the hobby during the 19th and early 20th centuries, and some collectors still practice "dipping" silver coins.

 

A coin like the 1807 would get slabbed by a major TPG despite being cleaned because of it's rarity and desirability. Less desirable coins would undoubtely get body-bagged.

[TomB]

The darker coin looks to possibly be original while the lighter colored piece has been horribly dipped and stripped. Read my thread on original surfaces and you will learn quite a bit. The thread is here.

[WinstonWare]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. TomB - great article. I enjoyed it!

[DaveG]

Just to be clear, the grading services don't consider a 'dipped' coin to be a 'cleaned' coin.

 

'Cleaned' to a grading service (or a collector) means a coin that has been 'abrasively' or 'harshly' cleaned, that is, a coin that has been rubbed with an abrasive (toothpaste, silver polish, etc.) or a cloth (look for the hairlines) or been exposed to a harsh chemical (acid, etc.)

 

The grading services will slab dipped coins (and they're also a bit more forgiving for early 19th century coin than they are for late 19th century and later coins).

 

However, sophisticated collectors will avoid coins that have been obviously or excessively dipped. A circulated coin (that should have oxidized over the years) that has been dipped white has been obviously dipped. An uncirculated coin that has been dipped enough to diminish its luster has been excessively dipped.

 

It's fairly easy to tell a coin that has been obviously dipped; it takes a bit more practice to tell if a coin has been excessively dipped.

[michael]

The darker coin looks to possibly be original while the lighter colored piece has been horribly dipped and stripped. Read my thread on original surfaces and you will learn quite a bit. The thread is here.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mozin]

The darker coin looks to possibly be original while the lighter colored piece has been horribly dipped and stripped. Read my thread on original surfaces and you will learn quite a bit. The thread is here.

I agree the 1807 has been dipped and is retoning. I don't understand why you say it has been "horribly dipped and stripped." I sure can't see that from the pictures.

[James_OldeTowne]

In your examples, the 1806 looks like a really nice, ORIGINAL coin, which is why it has that dirty look. Very nice, and worth solid money. The 1807 looks like cr&p to me. Definitely cleaned, and personally, I wouldn't offer more than 20% below current market value for it.

 

I don't know why some people think PCGS (and NGC) won't slab cleaned coins. It simply isn't true. There are many many many cleaned coins in their holders, including some pretty drastically cleaned coins, as well as dipped and doctored coins. So if you are looking for choice quality in coins, seeing a coin in a slab is only a starting point. You should not look at the slab as any kind of final word on the GRADE, but rather, as the final word on the coin being AUTHENTIC. Then, look at the grade, and decide for yourself whether it's a solid coin at the grade, or a cr&ppy coin at the grade, which the 1807 appears to be.

 

DO NOT RELY ON THE THIRD-PARTY GRADE! You simply MUST learn to grade for yourself to be truly successful as a collector!

 

So in short, the 1806 is not cleaned, the 1807 is, yet both are in PCGS holders, identically graded. Which do you think is worth more?

 

James

[WinstonWare]

Personally I like the 1806 and would pay more for it. I am a novice, however, and wanted to get the opinion of people more experienced than myself.

 

I was of the opinion that NGC & PCGS wouldn't slab cleaned coins because that is what is written on their "Grading Process" site.

 

Thanks again for all of your help! I feel more much more knowledgable and confident, albeit about this one small facet of coin collecting.

 

Winston

[James_OldeTowne]

Winston, bear in mind that the goal of PCGS and NGC is not to certify coins that are harshly cleaned. Unfortunately, the reality is that a very large percentage of coins have been cleaned, particularly from 200 years ago, and if EVERY cleaned coin was rejected, then grading services would correspondingly lose a humongous amount of grading revenue. Therefore, allowances are made for coins that are cleaned, but not cleaned "too badly".

 

Of course, how badly a coin is cleaned is completely subjective, which is the reason that YOU must determine what's acceptable to YOU first, instead of letting grading companies force THEIR standards upon you.

 

Good luck! Sounds like you're on the right path!

 

James

[CTcollector]

I can't really add much more than what has already been shared. You got some great guidance so far. I do think its great that that a) you are asking questions prior to jumping in and b) your own instinct points you towards like original looing coins versus dipped/conserved/cleaned pieces. You are on the right track !

[TomB]

The reason that I wrote that the coin had been "horribly dipped and stripped" is because the piece is 199 years old and has the wear pattern of an EF40 (I am taking PCGS's word on this one because I cannot tell from the image) and, as such, the coin should most likely be considerably darker than it is. In my opinion, any 199 year old silver coin with wear that brings it down to EF40 should not be as bright as a 40% silver Ike from the 1970s and, if it is, then by definition it is "horribly dipped and stripped".