PayPal Resolution of My Claim

[gmarguli]

Many of you have probably heard that if a buyer files a dispute against you, unless you can prove it was delivered, they will find in favor of the buyer and refund them their money. It doesn't matter if you can prove you mailed it, as long as the buyer says they didn't get it and you have no proof (Delivery Confirmation, Signature Confirmation, etc), you're screwed. I've heard the above many times and I'm sure you have also.

 

Now, my story:

 

Recently I purchased an item from a foreign seller. It was under $20 including their way overpriced S&H. I've done business with them before without any problems. I paid with PayPal. It usually takes a LONG time before I receive the items - a combination of slow shipping and slow postal delivery.

 

After maybe two weeks I get a PayPal invoice from the seller asking me to pay. I figure it's a mistake and cancel the invoice as I've already paid and send an email saying that it has been paid for. Maybe two more weeks go by and I get another PayPal invoice which asks me to pay a different email address. I cancel this invoice and send another email stating that I have paid to the original email address - which was the one listed in the auction.

 

After contacting the seller, he informs me that he is locked out of the original account and can't get the payment or refund it and again, he asks me to pay to the new address. While this sounds like a scam/hijacked account, I do not believe it is. I decide to contact PayPal to get my original payment reversed so I can issue another payment. I detail the story to them and indicate that I never received the item I purchased and get the canned response that they will look into it.

 

Based on everything I've heard, it seems pretty obvious to me that they'll refund my money since I never received the item and then I can pay the seller to their new address. WRONG!

 

Canned response from PayPal: In response to your claim, the seller has provided proof of shipment indicating that the item was shipped to you. Because the seller was able to provide proof of shipment, we cannot reverse this transaction or issue a refund. We encourage you to continue to work directly with the seller to amicably resolve this dispute

 

Now this is unusual that the seller can prove they shipped me the item since they haven't. They're waiting for my second payment. It doesn't matter that I claim not to have received the item. They somehow proved shipment and that's all that matters. I really wonder if PayPal contacted them, since if they did I'd assume the seller would want the original "locked out" payment refunded to me so I could pay their correct address.

 

I'm going to fire off an email to the seller to see what they have to say, but I thought it was interesting that the story of "if they can't prove you got it, you'll get a refund" is not true or at least not always true.

[truthteller]

 

 

 

 

 

TRUTH

[cpm9ball]

Greg, it doesn't surprise me and it seems that it doesn't matter if its Pay Pal or any other business. People just don't give a damn anymore about doing the best job they can. All they want to do is get paid.

 

Chris

[Leothelion]

They can prove that they have shipped the item but how can they prove that you received it.

It's also interestiing that they were able to obtain proof without the possibilty of sending the package, unless they made a mistake with your mailing address.

But yet, why would they state such a claim when you have received emails stating they're still waiting payment.

And why can't Paypal check into the possibilty that this seller actually has a bad account or if he has two accounts. It doesn't make any sense that they would tell you that they can do nothing....that you're basically on your own with dealing with this seller.

Doesn't paypal know that you made a payment and to whom that payment went to, if they received it?

It appears that they were just buying some time to make the lame claim.

 

Leo

[Stanley]

About 3 years ago I reported ebay seller “mickanix” to PayPal for non delivery of goods to the tune almost $2800.00. To make a long story short, PayPal’s response was “Seller has provided the following tracking number and there must have been an oversight on my part. He give them a bogus tracking number which they never verified. Only after about 45 days had passed did PayPal finally acknowledge that the seller was at fault. By then the seller was No Longer a Registered User. Bye Bye $2800.00. I did get about $1100.00 back from ebay and PayPal and am currently waiting for class action settlement from PayPal for what amount I’m not sure.

[Hoot]

These are reasons I always use a credit card with PayPal. They are so full of crapola with their assurances (as is eBay), that the best resolve anyone has is through their CC company - period.

 

Hoot

[Beijim]

Good God almighty. If I ever had to deal with something like this, I'd want to blow my brains out. I'm frustrated just reading your description!

 

By sending the sort of prepackaged dreck you received, PayPal only confirms the widespread belief that they couldn't care less about anything even remotely resembling competent customer service. I'm afraid that, when it comes down to it, I (sadly) have reached the same conclusion as Chris.

 

I hope you get satisfaction nonetheless...

 

Regards,

Beijim

[Stanley]

These are reasons I always use a credit card with PayPal. They are so full of crapola with their assurances (as is eBay), that the best resolve anyone has is through their CC company - period.

 

Hoot

 

Hoot, you are absolutely right a credit card can be your first line of defense, a lesson I learned the hard way. I believe when this incident happened I was sporting a yellow star with a big 12 and paid “Fast, Safe, and Secure with PayPal instant bank transfer” I have come a long way since then and with some more close calls I might add.

Currently I have 248 positive transactions to my credit and 100% feedback and we all know how quickly that can change.

[James_OldeTowne]

I do not accept PayPal, period, end of story. Way back when, in the course of maybe just three months, I got ripped twice to the tune of hundreds of dollars, and that ended any possible interest on my part of ever getting involved with PayPal again.

 

I'd rather lose a sliver of potential business than struggle with that service.

 

James

[Weidel Legacy Collection]

James -

I've taken the same route as you. No more PayPal...it just isn't worth the hassle. If I buy or sell then its checks or money orders only.

[supertooth]

Greg----Years ago, I bought a rare gold coin from a seller in Italy. Sent my money and what he asked for shipping and insurance. In short, I never got the coin. I found out he shipped by DHL [who doesn't accept coins for shipping---seller knew this but I did not]. The coin was supposedly stolen in Rome. Seller then informed me that DHL employees use metal detectors to steal things like coins and jewelry. Again, the short of it was that he supposedly could prove that he mailed 'something' thru DHL----and Ebay did absolutely nothing to help me. I pulled a rant on Ebay but got nowhere. The seller returned the DHL insurance money to me----but I never saw my coin or the rest of my money. I got about 20% of my money back. Lesson learned----do not trust overseas sellers [you cannot get to them] -----and never think that Ebay will be on your side. I also found out that Italy forbids the removal of all gold coins from their country. My seller also knew this----and Ebay should have known this too---never should have allowed the listing in the first place. Bottom line----a completed transaction on Ebay depends on the honesty of the buyer and the seller. If this breaks down for some reason---you got trouble that might not be fixable. Bob [supertooth]

[Jason W-migration]

Here is my Paypal horror story.

 

A year or so back, I sold a 2001 1oz Maple leaf bullion coin to a buyer in Hong Kong. All seemed well as the buyer paid with a credit card through Paypal, I shipped the coin and heard nothing for 3 weeks. I then get an email from Paypal saying that they are going to reverse the payment as the credit card was no good. Now it has been 3 weeks and the coin most definitly reached its destination with no chance of retrieval. After many attempts to contact the buyer (who said his account had been compromised and would not pay), and many emails to Paypal, the final result was thet because the buyer didn't have a confirmed address, Paypal said tough luck and if I wanted to persue the matter I would have to get a lawyer to subpeona them for their records (the coin sold for $500 and I am sure the lawyer fees would be much more so I was SOL.

 

I was really bothered that it took them 3 weeks in this new world of millisecond electronic transfers to find out the card was no good. But they will lose more than the $500 from me because I do not accept Paypal and I go out of my way to pay with another form of payment.

 

Jason

[John Martinez]

Did you know that a stop payment can be put on a money order? Yep. Happened to me.

[Connecticoin]

Did you know that a stop payment can be put on a money order? Yep. Happened to me.

 

 

We need details!!

 

How was this done?

 

Was the stop payment ordered before you went to cash the MO, or did the MO "bounce" after you deposited in your bank account, or what?

 

Was it a postal MO or other type?

[Excaliber]

Yep, just like a check!

[EZ_E]

Greg, you state awhile back that you would never deal with an e-bayer that doesn't accept paypal. Have you now changed your mind?

 

I was thinking about selling off some stuff on e-bay in a few months. Since I'm paypal verified, I thought that I'd arrange my auctions to accept paypal. After reading this thread, I'm having second thoughts.

[gmarguli]

Greg, you state awhile back that you would never deal with an e-bayer that doesn't accept paypal. Have you now changed your mind?

 

I was thinking about selling off some stuff on e-bay in a few months. Since I'm paypal verified, I thought that I'd arrange my auctions to accept paypal. After reading this thread, I'm having second thoughts.

 

It's not that I would never deal with a seller who doesn't take PayPal, but if you are selling a commodity type item, I will find a seller that does take PayPal for this item. It's just easier to pay this way.

 

Like all of us, my budget is limited. There are frequently more items that I'd like to own than I can afford. Given this, if you don't take PayPal, I'll likely buy one of the other items I'm interested in. However, if I really want the item, I'll pay with a check. But, more often than not, I'll simply pass. There is a coin that has been listed several times on eBay. I've probably seen it 15 times and it was probably up more than that before I first saw it. The seller doesn't take PayPal. Based on the eBay fee system and the asking price of this coin, this seller has spent probably $75-$100 to list this coin. When it sells, they'll save around $25-$35 because they don't take PayPal. However, if they did, I'd probably have purchased the coin by now and saved them at least that much in listing fees.

[JamminJ]

There is a coin that has been listed several times on eBay. I've probably seen it 15 times and it was probably up more than that before I first saw it. The seller doesn't take PayPal. Based on the eBay fee system and the asking price of this coin, this seller has spent probably $75-$100 to list this coin. When it sells, they'll save around $25-$35 because they don't take PayPal. However, if they did, I'd probably have purchased the coin by now and saved them at least that much in listing fees.

 

Link please.

[gmarguli]

There is a coin that has been listed several times on eBay. I've probably seen it 15 times and it was probably up more than that before I first saw it. The seller doesn't take PayPal. Based on the eBay fee system and the asking price of this coin, this seller has spent probably $75-$100 to list this coin. When it sells, they'll save around $25-$35 because they don't take PayPal. However, if they did, I'd probably have purchased the coin by now and saved them at least that much in listing fees.

 

Link please.

 

I skip it when I search for it. It's a common klippe 2 taler.

[JamminJ]

There is a coin that has been listed several times on eBay. I've probably seen it 15 times and it was probably up more than that before I first saw it. The seller doesn't take PayPal. Based on the eBay fee system and the asking price of this coin, this seller has spent probably $75-$100 to list this coin. When it sells, they'll save around $25-$35 because they don't take PayPal. However, if they did, I'd probably have purchased the coin by now and saved them at least that much in listing fees.

 

Link please.

 

I skip it when I search for it. It's a common klippe 2 taler.

 

Salzburg storm thaler?

[gmarguli]

There is a coin that has been listed several times on eBay. I've probably seen it 15 times and it was probably up more than that before I first saw it. The seller doesn't take PayPal. Based on the eBay fee system and the asking price of this coin, this seller has spent probably $75-$100 to list this coin. When it sells, they'll save around $25-$35 because they don't take PayPal. However, if they did, I'd probably have purchased the coin by now and saved them at least that much in listing fees.

 

Link please.

 

I skip it when I search for it. It's a common klippe 2 taler.

 

Salzburg storm thaler?

 

The one with the tower and blowing clouds. Is that Salzburg? I thought it was German?

[JamminJ]

There is a coin that has been listed several times on eBay. I've probably seen it 15 times and it was probably up more than that before I first saw it. The seller doesn't take PayPal. Based on the eBay fee system and the asking price of this coin, this seller has spent probably $75-$100 to list this coin. When it sells, they'll save around $25-$35 because they don't take PayPal. However, if they did, I'd probably have purchased the coin by now and saved them at least that much in listing fees.

 

Link please.

 

I skip it when I search for it. It's a common klippe 2 taler.

 

Salzburg storm thaler?

 

The one with the tower and blowing clouds. Is that Salzburg? I thought it was German?

 

Well, its Germanic!