1817 Large Cent

[MunkyMan95]

Hello. I have an 1817 large cent that exhibits some alright details and I was wondering if I should send it to NCS for conservation? It's got some rust on it, some green spots (oxidation?), and is in pretty bad shape. It's in a cardboard/mylar 2X2 right now and I want to have it be kept in at least good condition and have it not get any worse. If the grit and the rust and stuff was gone I think that there's a nice G-VG coin under the surface. Will NCS even accept the coin? If so, should I spend the money on them grading it an conserving it? Please tell me what you think. Thanks in advance.

 

 

Chad

[IGWT]

Hi Chad -- I doubt that conservation could do much for the corrosion; but, depending on the overall condition of the coin, it might be worth removing the verdigris (copper sulfate or copper chloride). I'm certainly no expert. I suggest that you post your question in the Ask NCS Forum.

[truthteller]

Hello. I have an 1817 large cent that exhibits some alright details and I was wondering if I should send it to NCS for conservation? It's got some rust on it, some green spots (oxidation?), and is in pretty bad shape. It's in a cardboard/mylar 2X2 right now and I want to have it be kept in at least good condition and have it not get any worse. If the grit and the rust and stuff was gone I think that there's a nice G-VG coin under the surface. Will NCS even accept the coin? If so, should I spend the money on them grading it an conserving it? Please tell me what you think. Thanks in advance.

 

 

Chad

 

Unless your 1817 large cent is a very rare variety, it is not worth the time nor expense of sending it to NCS. From your description, the coin appears to be very porous with verdegris(green substance), which is common of low grade early copper US coinage. The "rust" is oxidation from the copper and surrounding elements such as water, air and surface contaminants. I recommend keeping the coin "as is" and spending $30 on a nice VG coin with no problems, which is what your local coin dealer should charge.

 

 

TRUTH

[MunkyMan95]

Thanks guys... This coin has some sentimental value and I just didn't want it to be damaged any further. I'll post on ask NCS soon. BTW, how much do you think it would cost to be conserved?

[EZ_E]

It would cost about $25 for conservation. However, If Mark Hooten views this post he can tell you exactly what you need to do in accordance with your wishes. I would recommend this route.

[MunkyMan95]

Ok, who exactly is Mark Hooten, how can I get in contact with him, and Thanks for the price quote.

[EZ_E]

He's an active poster and an extremely knowledgable numismatist who knows early copper preservation. His handle is Hoot on the boards. He'll make his way around this post eventually. The title will intrigue him.

[MunkyMan95]

Thanks for the info!

[EZ_E]

Well, I guess that Mark didn't see this thread. maybe this will help:

 

glossy copper

[Hoot]

Hi SE95 - Been gone for the weekend.

 

This coin has some sentimental value and I just didn't want it to be damaged any further.

 

This is the most important and compelling par of your post.

 

IGWT identified the verdigris, and others chimed in on the perspective that the coin is likely of low value monetarily. (There are no terribly rare varieties for 1817.) Conservation, however, for a senitmental piece is important.

 

To condition your coin and clean mild verdigris and PVC off of surfaces, first get some xylol from your local hardware store. Use it in a well-vented area and dip the coin using appropriate protection for your skin. You can put cork on the end of sharp forceps or you can wrap the tines of needlenose pliers with strips of a white cotton t-shirt to handle the coin for the dip. Don't use anything plastic, as it will be dissolved. Dip the coin, even soaking it for a few minutes. Remove and air dry. Then use a cotton swab (Q-tip with paper shaft) and rub the surfaces lightly with the xylol. Do this until the swab no longer discolors.

 

Next, you'll need some Blue Ribbon or Coin Care cleaner and coin oil. I prefer Care, as it's not as dangerous to use as BR. You can buy Care at Brent-Krueger. You'll also need a soft camelhair jeweler's brush. You can order one from Rod Burress (he may also carry Care, but I know he carries Blue Ribbon). 513-771-0696 is his advertised phone #.

 

Use Care liberally and gently rub the surface of the coin with a cotton swab dipped in Care. Do this until the swab no longer turns green. This could take some time. In fact, you could do the several times over several days. Each time, leave the Care on for a few hours, then dab off with a cotton cloth.

 

After doing this patiently for a few days, then rinse again in xylol. After drying, apply a coat of Care and let it sit over night. Apply a second coat and let sit for a few hours, then gently brush the coin all directions with the camel hair brush. Do about 50 strokes per side. Apply a third coat and let it sit an hour or so. Brush again, but only about 25 strokes per side.

 

Put the coin in a goog PVC-free flip. Oil and brush when the coin begins to appear "dry" or "brittle." Just don't let the coin get gunky. Over time, the surfaces will begin to take on a more natural brown appearnce. Verdigris will have been rendered inactive by the initial treatments, and your coin will be taken good care of in the long-run.

 

A possibility for removing verdigris is treatment with EDTA (a sodium salt of tetraacedic acid). I'm not sure where you could lay your hands on this, but proper treatment with copper can remove verdigris and leave a thin green layer of copper sulfide. This should then be followed with the procedures above.

 

Keep the coin away from heat and moisture. Store it with silicone gel packs, if necessary to keep moisture away, and be sure to refresh the packs now and then.

 

Sending it to NCS may be fine to deactivate verdigris, but it won't save your coin for the long-term, nor will it necessarily improve its appearance.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks for the recommendation, Victor!

 

Hoot

[EZ_E]

Hoot, won't the Q-tip treatment hairline the coin? I ruined some Walkers by using a Q-tip and MS70 coin cleaner.

[Hoot]

Not if used delicately. I've used this many times with no ill effect. Never do this on a mint state, AU, or proof coin. Always be gentle and do not use a Q-tip with a plastic shaft.

 

Hoot

[MunkyMan95]

Hi SE95 - Been gone for the weekend.

 

This coin has some sentimental value and I just didn't want it to be damaged any further.

 

This is the most important and compelling par of your post.

 

IGWT identified the verdigris, and others chimed in on the perspective that the coin is likely of low value monetarily. (There are no terribly rare varieties for 1817.) Conservation, however, for a senitmental piece is important.

 

To condition your coin and clean mild verdigris and PVC off of surfaces, first get some xylol from your local hardware store. Use it in a well-vented area and dip the coin using appropriate protection for your skin. You can put cork on the end of sharp forceps or you can wrap the tines of needlenose pliers with strips of a white cotton t-shirt to handle the coin for the dip. Don't use anything plastic, as it will be dissolved. Dip the coin, even soaking it for a few minutes. Remove and air dry. Then use a cotton swab (Q-tip with paper shaft) and rub the surfaces lightly with the xylol. Do this until the swab no longer discolors.

 

Next, you'll need some Blue Ribbon or Coin Care cleaner and coin oil. I prefer Care, as it's not as dangerous to use as BR. You can buy Care at Brent-Krueger. You'll also need a soft camelhair jeweler's brush. You can order one from Rod Burress (he may also carry Care, but I know he carries Blue Ribbon). 513-771-0696 is his advertised phone #.

 

Use Care liberally and gently rub the surface of the coin with a cotton swab dipped in Care. Do this until the swab no longer turns green. This could take some time. In fact, you could do the several times over several days. Each time, leave the Care on for a few hours, then dab off with a cotton cloth.

 

After doing this patiently for a few days, then rinse again in xylol. After drying, apply a coat of Care and let it sit over night. Apply a second coat and let sit for a few hours, then gently brush the coin all directions with the camel hair brush. Do about 50 strokes per side. Apply a third coat and let it sit an hour or so. Brush again, but only about 25 strokes per side.

 

Put the coin in a goog PVC-free flip. Oil and brush when the coin begins to appear "dry" or "brittle." Just don't let the coin get gunky. Over time, the surfaces will begin to take on a more natural brown appearnce. Verdigris will have been rendered inactive by the initial treatments, and your coin will be taken good care of in the long-run.

 

A possibility for removing verdigris is treatment with EDTA (a sodium salt of tetraacedic acid). I'm not sure where you could lay your hands on this, but proper treatment with copper can remove verdigris and leave a thin green layer of copper sulfide. This should then be followed with the procedures above.

 

Keep the coin away from heat and moisture. Store it with silicone gel packs, if necessary to keep moisture away, and be sure to refresh the packs now and then.

 

Sending it to NCS may be fine to deactivate verdigris, but it won't save your coin for the long-term, nor will it necessarily improve its appearance.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks for the recommendation, Victor!

 

Hoot

 

Hoot where do you reccomend I get Coin Oil and a Camelhair Jeweler's Brush and how much do they usually cost? Just wondering. Thanks. Also I was just searching over the internet and I found 2 brushes. One for cleaning optics and some paint brushes made from camel hair. Will they work just as well?

[Hoot]

Hoot where do you reccomend I get Coin Oil and a Camelhair Jeweler's Brush and how much do they usually cost? Just wondering. Thanks. Also I was just searching over the internet and I found 2 brushes. One for cleaning optics and some paint brushes made from camel hair. Will they work just as well?

 

Next, you'll need some Blue Ribbon or Coin Care cleaner and coin oil. I prefer Care, as it's not as dangerous to use as BR. You can buy Care at Brent-Krueger. You'll also need a soft camelhair jeweler's brush. You can order one from Rod Burress (he may also carry Care, but I know he carries Blue Ribbon). 513-771-0696 is his advertised phone #.

 

Care is coin oil. I don't think I'd use any old camep-hair brush. You need a long set of bristles and they need to be very fine - #4.

 

Hoot