Different Forms of Doubling (Lots of Photos)

[Die Varieties]

dinwiddie: In answer to your question concerning the California States quarter doubling in another post, to the best of my knowledge (and I confer with other professional attributers on a almost daily basis); there are NO known genuine doubled dies for any of the states quarters, whether proof or business strike, whether on the obverse or the reverse -- to date.

 

However -- there are many that exhibit various forms of other non-collectable doubling such as mechanical doubling damage (MDD). This form of MDD is also known in our variety hobby as machine doubling, chatter doubling, shelf doubling, and strike doubling to name just a few.

 

Each week I average examining probably 15 to 20 different packages sent to me from various collectors believing they have a doubled die on their coins. Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority exhibit this mechanical doubling damage (MDD) and NOT genuine hub doubling (doubled die).

 

I know this can be very frustrating for collectors. It was frustrating for me when I first got started in the die variety hobby of our numismatics.

 

As the old adage goes, "A picture is worth a thousand words." In this post I would like to help explain to potential new collectors interested in die varieties in illustrating the differences between this non-collectable form of doubling called mechanical doubling damage (MDD) versus the genuine diagnostics of a true doubled die (which is collectable).

 

I have provided a few photos to be able to compare these differences. I have labeled the Photos #1, #2, etc.

 

Our first four photos illustrate mechanical doubling damage (MDD) that was sent to me from a collector who thought he had a doubled die.

 

In Photo #1 I have provided an overall view of some of the letters on the word AMERICA. This is from a 2006-S 25c Proof (Silver Type) North Dakota States Quarter holdered in a proof set. At first glance -- in this photo it looks like were seeing a doubled die! The letters look doubled with what appears to be separation (division) lines.

 

 

Now -- lets take a closer look in the below Photo #2. Again -- it looks like the lettering "ICA" of the word AMERICA exhibits doubling. But -- it is not. I have placed arrows pointing to where there is NO notching. What we think are separation/divison lines are actually where the die scrapped part of the lettering upon the striking of the coin. It has a flat, shelf-like appearance which derives the term "shelf doubling" that I mentioned earlier above. But the main "red flag" is there is no notching. A genuine doubled die will show the notching especially at the corners of the lettering. As we can see in the Photo #2 -- there is none.

 

 

Lets take another look at the motto of this same 2006-S 25c Proof North Dakota States Quarter. In the below Photo #3 we are looking at some of the letters on the motto IN GOD WE TRUST. Again -- it looks like we have a doubled die here. But -- again, it is NOT but rather mechanical doubling damage (MDD). In this photo #3 I have used arrows again to point out there is NO notching to the lettering.

 

 

Finally, in Photo #4 lets check out the letters "AR" of the word DOLLAR on this same proof coin. Arrows point out there is no notching on the lettering -- but it looks like it's doubled. This is the MDD we are seeing and not a genuine doubled die.

 

 

Now -- lets compare with a genuine doubled die on a quarter with similar lettering. Below in Photo #5 we have an overall view of the word AMERICA on a 1964-D 25c assigned in my "C" files as 1964-D 25c CDDR-001 (doubled die reverse) and in, "The Cherrypickers' Guide to Rare Die Varieties" by J.T. Stanton and Bill Fivaz as FS-025/CONECA 1-R-V on page 227 exhibiting a fairly strong Class V pivoted hub doubling on the reverse of the coin. Notice in this photo #5 we have the separation/division lines along with the key diagnostic "notching" that can be seen on the lettering pointed out by the arrrows. This notching is the main thing to look for in a genuine doubled die.

 

 

Again in Photo #6 an overall view of the last letters of the word AMERICA on the 1964-D 25c CDDR-001 we see the distinct notching illustrated with the arrows. Compare photos #5 and #6 with photo #1 above and see the differences.

 

 

Now for an closer same comparison -- in the below Photo #7 with have the letters "ICA" of the word AMERICA. Here we can easily see that distinct notching pointed out by the arrows. Compare this photos #7 with photo #2 above that exhibits the mechanical doubling damage (MDD) which does not have that distinct notching.

 

 

For our final comparison illustration below in Photo #8 we have the letters "ER" of QUARTER from our 1964-D 25c CDDR-001. Though not the same letters as in photo #4 above depicting "AR" of DOLLAR from the 2006-S 25c Proof North Dakota -- it still gives us a way to compare. Below in the photo again we see the distinct notching which is the diagnostic of a genuine doubled die. When comparing -- photo #4 above does not have the notching due to it only being mechanical doubling damage (MDD).

 

 

Now -- to fully answer your question, below are photos of the latest known genuine doubled die on a quarter. It is a 1990-S 25c Proof that is assigned in my "C" files as 1990-S 25c PF CDDO-001 and is also assigned in, "The Cherrypickers Guide to Rare Die Varieties" by J.T. Stanton and Bill Fivaz as FS-029. However, the latest edition we currently have is the old "CPG" Volume II (which covers quarters) and doesn't illustrate this variety in that particular book. I would assume in the upcoming new edition (Volume II) to be published by Whitman Publishing around late April/early May will illustrate this proof quarter doubled die obverse. It would be my guess very few collectors are even aware of this strong DDO on a 1990-S proof quarter. In my many years of searching, I have only come across one in the proof set and below are the photos of it. I sold it way back in 1996 for around $700. I would guess it would be approaching 4 figures now and especially when it's illustrated in the new upcoming CPG Volume II. Below in Photo #9 we can see the strong doubling on the digits "19" of the date with the notching pointed out by the arrows.

 

 

Below in Photo #10 again we see the strong Class V pivoted hub doubling on the digits "90" of the date. Notching is readily visible on the lower portion of the digit "9." Since the digit "0" does not have any cornering we don't see the notching but the separation/division lines are strong and prominent.

 

 

Finally in the Photo #11 below is illustrating the hub doubling on the "S" mint mark. Again the strong deep notching is pointed out by the arrows in the photo. Contrary -- this is NOT a re-punched mint mark (RPM), though it looks like it is one. The mint mark was put into the master die back in 1990. So therefore -- what we see on the "S" is from the hub doubling (doubled die) evident as the prominent separation/division lines and notching. Hmm -- I think I can hear a lot of collectors looking for their 1990 Proof Sets!!!!!!!!

 

 

Well -- I guess I ended up writing more than a 1000 words but I hope this helps out in trying to see the differences between genuine hub doubling (doubled die) when compared to the non-collectable form of doubling termed mechanical doubling damage (MDD). If this has helped one collector or potential collector then that is the most important part. Study your coins, and with time, knowledge and patience -- you will be able to quickly distinguish what is the "real deal" versus what is not.

 

If you have any questions you can PM me anytime. I wish you all the best in your collecting endeavors.

[koincollector]

Thanks for the nice and informative article. This really explains a lot about the difference between the two.

[Stanley]

Thanks Billy..Very informative

 

 

I just imaged an 1889 Morgan struck with worn dies with lots of doubling including lips. Do you mind if I add to your thread .

[cpm9ball]

Great explanation, Billy! I have a couple CA 25c that appear to be doubled along the leading edge of the condor's wing, but the doubling seems to be within the normal confines of the device. Since this area on the die would be incuse, I've wondered that it may be tilted hub doubling. How can I determine if this is machine or hub doubling?

 

Chris

[Ed Daggett]

Many thanks. Your posts and pictures are always informative.

 

We are fortunate to have someone with your credentials sharing with us.

 

Ed

[Mozin]

Thanks for taking the time to start this thread. Good job.

[Die Varieties]

Great explanation, Billy! I have a couple CA 25c that appear to be doubled along the leading edge of the condor's wing, but the doubling seems to be within the normal confines of the device. Since this area on the die would be incuse, I've wondered that it may be tilted hub doubling. How can I determine if this is machine or hub doubling?

 

Chris

 

Hi Chris: Well -- there's only one way to determine and that's by actual examination of the coin. You can PM me if you would like for me to examine the coin. Also, BTW -- I mailed the LAST COPY of my book to your friend Duke this morning. Thanks for the referral and also a big THANKS to all of you who ordered my book. I am now OFFICIALLY sold out!

 

To All: For those of you who are now tearing up the house looking for your 1990 Proof sets -- please let me know iffin you come across that proof quarter DDO. That's a rare & tuff looking DDO and extremely popular especially with the states quarters collectors. I would just like to hear if anybody else comes across one.

[dinwiddie-migration]

Thankyou Billy. I truely appreciate your time and effort expended in this post. I feel like I should be paying you for your pofessional advice. There are so many people on this board who have helped me and I thank them too. I guess my biggest problem as it has been for a while is getting good quality scans of mycoins as alot of the coins I've found are qestionable. I would love to be able to get the clarity that your photo' display. Thanks Again , Fred

[vumc409]

Billy,

 

Most impressive explanation. I was questioning myself this morning on some of my own coins.

 

Michael

[Die Varieties]

To All: I forgot to mention that I will be leaving the photos up in this post permanently. So -- if you desire to bookmark or link this post for future reference, by all means do so.

 

Since this post covered mechanical doubling damage (MDD) then tomorrow I will make another post that covers die deteroriation doubling (DDD) that will also have comparison photos up permanently. MDD and DDD are the two main other forms of non-collectable doubling that trips up a lot of potential new collectors to our great hobby.

 

Thanks ...

[CarolinaCollector]

Thanks, Billy!

[HaydenTubbs]

[IGWT]

Very nice!