Cracking slabs

[harpoon111-migration]

Does it make sense to crack slabs from a lower regarded grading company and submit them to one of the two top graders? If so, how many grades lower might one expect that coin to come back. Does anyone have enough experience with this to say that a NNC might come back 2 grades lower or a SGS 5 grades lower? Thanks for your input.

[HaydenTubbs]

You can never tell with those backyard grading services. As for cracking them out,well it depends on the coin...

[ldhair]

No set rule to go by. Even the worst service get some right.

Every coin is a new decision with different factors to consider, as far as regrading goes.

[Jazzy]

Welcome harpoon!!!

 

If you're going to buy slabs from Joe's Schmoe's Septic and Numismatic Guarantee, you'd better be very VERY good at grading yourself.

 

Otherwise, stick to the top tier TPG's - NGC, PCGS, ANACS, and for ancients, ICG.

 

To start learning about grading, get the ANA manual.

[Coin]

Hello and welcome to the boards , Harpoon .

 

As far as what has been said about 'cracking out' a coin....It depends on what your goal is really.A) If you have a coin from a TPG that looks like what the label says it is and you can get confirmation from a few reliable sources....leave it as is and save a few bucks. B) If you have a coin that you think is exactly the grade it says and you want to compete with the coin in a registry set and need it to be in either an NGC or PCGS holder to compete with it , then you have the 'cross-over option' .-it could grade the same , lower , or higher...depending on what ,if any, restrictions you put on the submission form for that coin. C) You have a coin that you feel is problem free , in an NNC holder and you want to sell it and feel it will bring a higher price in a top-tier TPG holder over the NNC holder regardless of whether or not it crosses over the same or a lower grade or two. Then there is D) - you like holders from one of the top TPG's better than the NNC holder and are willing to shell out a few bucks for the new plastic housing. I could go on an on...but really to best answer your question , it would really help if you could tell us your goal or intention with this coin. -John

[harpoon111-migration]

Thanks to all for their insight. I wish my grading talents were better, they're not, so I'm left with TPG's. I do feel more confident in purchasing coins from either NGC or PCGS. Occasionally a coin becomes available from another TGP and I wonder if it's worth the purchase figuring it probably would grade lower at NGC. I am interested in building registry sets so it's PCGS or NGC. Thanks

[robertpr-migration]

Remember that people who deal in coins KNOW that joe schmoe's fly-by-night grading service (JSFGS) bring far less than coins in PCGS and NGC plastic and in many cases less than the coin would bring RAW. That being said, a lot of the stuff in these slabs are problem coins that will not be slabbed by the mainstream services, otherwise they would have been sent to these services. That being said, JSFGS and other such services don't really offer guarantees anyway so it's not like you're voiding anything by cracking their slabs.

[Jazzy]

Remember that people who deal in coins KNOW that joe schmoe's fly-by-night grading service (JSFGS) bring far less than coins in PCGS and NGC plastic and in many cases less than the coin would bring RAW. That being said, a lot of the stuff in these slabs are problem coins that will not be slabbed by the mainstream services, otherwise they would have been sent to these services. That being said, JSFGS and other such services don't really offer guarantees anyway so it's not like you're voiding anything by cracking their slabs.

 

Good point. Got a cleaned or counterfeit coin you want slabbed? Sned it to PCI. They even ask you what grade you expect. Hmmmmm.

[Hoot]

As Hayden is implying, this is a very difficult question to answer. There are nice coins and real crapola in all holders. There is no general correspondence of one TPG grade to another except to say that NGC, PCGS, and ANACS have graded with very similar standards over time. ICG has established itself with standards that are comparable, but are often considered a point or two more generous. Yet another "generality" that does not apply to any single coin.

 

For any service, you will ultimately have to judge for yourself. I have seen Both MS67 coins in MS67 holders with "other" services, and also AU58 coins in MS67 holders of the same. I believe it's darn near impossible to generalize.

 

Hoot

[TerrapinWill]

I will sometimes buy coins on Ebay in third world holders, if I feel the images are good and there is a return policy. As has been pointed out, a broken clock is right twice a day. The difference for me is that I dont crack and resubmit, I crack to place in an album, assuming I'm not returning the coin.

[jom]

Like everyone has said it is a very difficult question to answer. The problem is that you need to have a lot of experience with the particular series of coin to tell the whether it PQ, or crapp or played with or counterfiet. The BEST defense against this is knowledge.

 

As a novice you HAVE to treat "third world TPG's" (I like that wording ) as if the coin were RAW. Like TerrapinWill mentions there is nothing wrong with buying a RAW coin if you know what you are doing and you get a return policy (assuming you are buying sight-unseen).

 

The difficulty with grading is that it involves a lot of subtle factors. For example, sometimes a coin could technically grade MS65 but another coin just like it may only grade MS63 but seem prettier. This is confusing to many novices because grade often does NOT equate to QUALITY. It may be a MS63 because it stands out from color or luster but have defects that prevent the higher grade (marks for instance). You just have to look at as many coins as possible in the series of coins you are interested in to gain this experiece.

 

As to the crack out game, remember it doesn't matter whether a coin is in a holder until you try to sell it. If you crack something out of a NTS holder and it for some reason gets lowered in grade (or ever body bagged) at NGC does it really matter? You have to ask yourself WHY you bought the coin in the first place. Did you LIKE the coin? If so, what does it matter what the grade is or what the service thinks? It's YOUR coin to enjoy. If you didn't like the coin maybe you should not have bought it in the first place. Unfortunately, many collectors these days are enamored with the label on the slab and don't seem to ENJOY the coin itself.

 

Anyway, just some things to think about....Good luck and welcome!

 

jom

[TerrapinWill]

When I first started collecting, my head was not in the right place. I thought I could bargain hunt from thrid world slabs, get the coin into ngc plastic and make a few bucks. Well, like most people who thought this, I was wrong. I didnt bother to educate myself and made about $600 worth of mistakes. I was lucky enough to be right once, and as it turns out I made all of the money back I had lost and changed my habits. I was grateful to get out of that way of thinking, mainly because people here and across the street educated me.

Now I am a dedicated album collector. for me it has made collecting fun. For albums, there are a few nice coins in third world holders available on Ebay.

 

On a more serious note, Collect what you like, and like what you collect. Buy the book, before you buy the coin. Buy the coin, not the holder. Learn how to grade by going to shows and shops and looking at as many examples as you can in PCGS and NGC holders. Buy coins you will enjoy, with discretionary income. Never worry about what others think of the coins you collect. Enjoy!!

[Coin]

I can't help laughing about the "Third World Holders" ... JOM , you might have started something....ROFLOL

 

Harpoon , since you mention that you are building registry sets , might I add just a wee bit of advice from another resident of this board ? Try purchasing coins that you like , that appeal to you ... already in the TPG holder that you seek versus buying several and then several more until you get one with the qualifications to submit for a cross-over ...in the long run you might save a little cash that can be spent getting more registry coins. Don't forget to smell the coffee along the way and collect a few raw coins for the sheer fun of it , like filling holes in albums/ holders . Sticking to just Registry sets can get to be boring after a while , not to mention expensive , and the coin price balloon won't last forever ( we will be seeing the investors selling off in droves when that happens - and they won't be happy campers either).... so don't forget to get some enjoyment out of it all . -JOHN

[harpoon111-migration]

Great insight from all you "old timers". I see that it's easy to get caught up in the 'slab' wars. One of my first gripes about purchasing slabs was that you couldn't get your hands on the coin ( which I know can be a no-no for most varieties). Part of the lure of having a coin is being able to touch and feel it and imagining the hands that have handled it over the years and the history behind it. Slabs certainly present a coin in a different light.

Coin collecting can be a hobby, an investment and a passion for the historical element... I guess it's finding a balance between all that will make my collecting as enjoyable as when I was but a lad. Thanks

[Bruceswar]

as the saying goes.... "buy the coin not the holder" just like with everything.. it takes time... be patient and go slow.... ask questions and get the help needed Welcome and good luck